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Post by Scott on Jan 23, 2018 22:52:52 GMT -5
I've started an OD&D style town and dungeon campaign. I'd like to breath some life into town. It's set in Greyhawk. What do you think are the essential locations to get started? A temple or two, a few inns/taverns, Striped Mage type to identify magic, maybe more than one option? How much detail would you use for various merchants? An apothecary/alchemist where basic potions can be purchased? What are your thoughts?
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Post by grodog on Jan 24, 2018 1:42:16 GMT -5
I guess it depends in part on your sense of how large the town is, and what kind of town it is---a boom town, on a trade route, a border fort, etc. The essentials to me include these types of vendors pulled from the Outdoor Geos listing:
- armorer - blacksmith - bowyer - cartographer/scribe - crier - fletcher - fortune teller - guards/men-at-arms - innkeeper - jeweler - leather worker/tanner - locksmith - merchants/caravans/traders - money-changer/money-lender/bank - rich patrons - rope maker - sage, scholar, scribe, or clerk/scrivener - swordsmith - ship's captain - thieves
I'd mix it up a bit and allow for some overlap, professional/personal rivalries, etc. by having 1-4 of the key ones, or with some that have overlapping general skills vs. specialists.
I would also think that you need at least one of each of the following classes, for training PCs purposes:
- an MU of at least 7th level (to scribe scrolls and brew/ID potions; an alchemist or apothecary is obviously an option there too) - at least one temple with a cleric of at least 7th level, preferably a few few faiths represented - some freelancing or passing-through thieves, even if there's no guild (or perhaps seasonal ones, a la Rhenne/Attloi) - a fighter of at least 5th level
Allan.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 24, 2018 8:59:15 GMT -5
I'm just roll and go for everything town related but there is so much legwork thats been there. I were to give a recommendation I might sell you short because its just second nature by now. Besides the above Allan mentions in geomorphs, the baseline for me is the random encounters in the DMG (1979) pg 190-194. (especially page 194 with what kinds of magic someone is likely to have). Here is what is written in the preface on page 190: Another thing to take into account is the consultations of the gold line of Grenadier miniatures from 1980. The figures in these sets were filling a void by making them necessary. So they went to TSR directly and found out what does D&D need from miniatures and what is it like. There are hints of this is the details of the sets: www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/index.php?title=AD%26D_-_Small_Figure_SetsI would look at all of these except the monsters but especially look at HIRELINGS, WIZARD'S ROOM and SPECIALISTS (the first version of SPECIALISTS had a half-orc cleric). These give an idea of what is going to be available. "Identify" casting is usually something I'll reserve for a small "thorp" somewhere but when characters get to the towns they'll be going to non-rugged, non-adventuring fixtures to ID material. The cheapest BTB is the bard in towns because they can " legend lore" in various degrees. The characters will only go sage level to identify in cities and only if its a key magic item. The usual buyers are not going to buy shit and they have to know what magic items are what ASAP. The characters are getting "gp sale value" for experience after all so they know to get the most for what it is even if they don't know what it is yet. So they'll be going to the different places to get the best price and what the buyer can tell them. After all, " identify" and " legend lore" doesn't come with a sealed authenticity so if the local caster of those isn't buying they're kind of useless middle man. The buyers have to have these abilities on the scene. So whatever "powers" they have it will usually be spot on.
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Post by Scott on Jan 24, 2018 13:46:32 GMT -5
Bards aren’t very common, and they’re transient, so I wouldn’t use them as ‘go to’ locations. It’s Greyhawk, and you have a couple of neophytes from the Wild Coast staying in the Foreign Quarter. We’ve got the Green Dragon Inn (where they’re staying). St. Cuthbert has always played a part in the campaign, so that’s probably the first temple they’ll deal with. But a few others will need to be introduced. The Striped Mage is a given. There is a wizards guild too as an alternative. I use the training rules, so what about training for fighters? Yggsburgh had the Swordsmen Brotherhood. I’m thinking I’ll just import that.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 24, 2018 14:37:44 GMT -5
Merchant ability is something that is Gygaxian but its just not rated so while not official it might act like the bard's non-magical Legend Lore ability (acquired through training). In this excerpt from GREYHAWK ADVENTURES: SAGA OF OLD CITY (1985) Chapter 11. The merchant has no power but has an ability of identifying magic also in general this is how I perceive D&D shopping (also with a non-Scotch dwarf to boot! ):
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Post by Scott on Jan 24, 2018 19:43:31 GMT -5
I was planning on introducing a go to merchant with a pretty wide range of goods, probably a Bakluni. Maybe a dwarf or a gnome for gems, precious metals. An alchemist to identify and sell potions. A few regulars at the inn should be developed. Spies, for the thieves guild, a powerful good force (Tenser?), rival adventurers, a mentor, etc.
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Post by Scott on Jan 25, 2018 23:45:26 GMT -5
The priests of St Cuthbert are probably one of the bigger cults in the city, and there’s probably a grand temple, but not in the Foreign Quarter. I would expect there to be a presence though, so a smaller chapel/shrine seems appropriate. A Chapel of Fharlanghn also seems like a good fit for the Foreign Quarter. 6th or 7th level seems like a good cap for priests in these smaller locations. Anything more than that and the PCs would have to try to get an audience at a bigger temple, maybe run into Serten.
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Post by grodog on Jan 26, 2018 0:46:12 GMT -5
When you were suggesting a town, I didn't think you meant the City of Greyhawk, Scott---figured you were looking to develop a smaller settlement. For a city the size of Greyhawk, I'd throw the phonebook at the place, and everything's available somewhere, for the right price....
Allan.
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Post by Scott on Jan 26, 2018 6:54:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I know that. But you can't develop the phonebook overnight. I'm trying to decide on what the essentials are for staring the campaign. What needs detail vs. what will probably be hand waved or skipped entirely. More detail can always be added as the campaign develops, but what should you start with?
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Post by GRWelsh on Jan 26, 2018 12:36:58 GMT -5
I've always envisioned the Green Dragon Inn being in a section of the Foreign Quarter that caters to adventurers and well-heeled travelers, with establishments like stables, smithy, armorer, provisioner, leatherworker, tailor, cartwright, moneychanger, jeweler and bank all within spitting distance. Magic-users probably have to go south into Clerksburg to get certain accoutrements like books, vellum, finer inks, etc. The Striped Mage and the Society of Magi would be able to cast spells at cost, and perhaps buy/sell/trade magic items. Weird way, if located, can be another magical trading post. A chapel dedicated to Fharlanghn would not be out of place in the Foreign Quarter, if you decide that temples are allowed there... I'd always assumed that all temples were in the Temple Quarter, perhaps due to some city ordinance (otherwise, why wouldn't they be scattered throughout?).
The nuts and bolts approach would be to respond to questions players most commonly ask when in town. Where can we stay? Are there other places to eat or drink or meet adventurers and find hirelings? Where can we buy armor and weapons? Where can we buy provisions and gear? Where can we buy horses? Where can we sell/buy gems and jewelry? Is there a bank where can store our belongings? Where can we sell or buy magic items? Is there anybody who can identify these magic items for us, or cast remove curse, or raise dead, or restoration?
Then add some color, like a Bakluni carpet merchant, perhaps an entrance to the sewers, local encounters like pick-pockets, beggars, mountebanks, swindlers, other NPC adventurers and travelers. Maybe steal a few establishments from LANKHMAR - CITY OF ADVENTURE (1985) and plop them down in Greyhawk... They'd be a good fit!
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Post by Scott on Jan 27, 2018 13:35:06 GMT -5
Did EGG's Greyhawk have a Temple Quarter mentioned? I placed most of the main temples in the High and Garden quarters. I wasn't thinking about full temples in the Foreign Quarter, just small chapels/shrines. I wouldn't put a Fharlanghn temple in the city, just a small chapel. The Foreign Quarter seems like the appropriate place for the god of travelers to have a presence. I imagine that St. Cuthbert's temple in Greyhawk may be one of the god's main temples, so it's probably grand. But, since Greyhawk is one of main areas where Cuthbert's followers can be found, and it's a sprawling metropolis, seven miles or more north south, I think it would be natural for his priests to be found in multiple location.
I thought about Lankhmar as a possible source of material.
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