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Tenser
Jan 7, 2017 10:26:07 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Jan 7, 2017 10:26:07 GMT -5
On a Facebook Greyhawk page somebody posted a later edition write up of Tenser. Ernie chimed in how it didn't resemble his PC, and then provided some quick Tenser info: "I made it to but 13th level (plus 1 for the Magic Users Crown artifact). I had a staff of wizardry, displacer cloak, ring of pro +2, flying boots and lots of lackeys around 6-9 level. 100 Medium Thoat riders - lancers, elves, dwarves and human troops. I had to give up my 2 Red Dragons when I turned Good since the artifact would only work for Good or Evil not Neutral as is my natural tendency of play."
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Tenser
Jan 7, 2017 10:40:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by geneweigel on Jan 7, 2017 10:40:57 GMT -5
Tender? I thought it was Ktel records presents Greyhawk's TENDER MOMENTS. 1970's style color TV shows Robilar and Quij the orc walking on the beach....
That was the way he was reacting at that 2007 Lake Geneva convention to this kid with a Roger Moore/Return to Greyhawk late 90's book with Tenser in it. He was like "THIS ISNT TENSER!"
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Tenser
Jan 7, 2017 11:23:27 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Jan 7, 2017 11:23:27 GMT -5
Autocorreeeeeeeeeeeect!
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Tenser
Jan 7, 2017 23:45:32 GMT -5
Post by grodog on Jan 7, 2017 23:45:32 GMT -5
The Robilar PC sheet I have lists him as level 15, and the Wild Coast PC roster from the ERK DVD shows him as level 14 c. 1975. That's about par XP wise with an MU:
- 14 Fighter OD&D = 740,000 XP required, assuming only 100,000 XP/level to advance beyond 9th; that's not at all clear in OD&D except in the MU table, but Rob's PC sheet shows "15th level +100,000 til next level" which seems to match that progression - 15 Fighter OD&D = 840,000 XP required - 13 MU OD&D = 500,000 XP required
Gary's "D&D is only as Good as the DM" in SR#7 (April 1976) also state that no PC had risen beyond 14th level in Blackmoor or Greyhawk to that time. So, it appears that Robilar was at least 240,000 XP ahead of Tenser, which is interesting to consider since Gary always spoke of Rob and Ernie as the two most talented and successful players in the Greyhawk campaign.
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Tenser
Jan 9, 2017 10:23:32 GMT -5
Post by GRWelsh on Jan 9, 2017 10:23:32 GMT -5
There was this weird era from the late 80's to the early 2000's when people kept trying to use Greyhawk characters like Robilar, Tenser, and Mordenkainen in modules and adventures in ways that always felt inappropriate.
Remember shaved-head Mordenkainen?
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Tenser
Jan 9, 2017 10:52:14 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Jan 9, 2017 10:52:14 GMT -5
That was the Sean Reynolds era. Not a fan of his style, at all. He was responsible for the shaved head on Mordie <Rumor Alert> as a homage to himself.
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Tenser
Jan 9, 2017 11:11:20 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jan 9, 2017 11:11:20 GMT -5
I remember every time that I brought up second edition Robilar with Rob he would change the subject as if to not step on the toes of the then Greyhawk hack slobs. A sharp contrast from Gary but Gary would also avoid consideration of 2E material. The difference was Rob was quickly "neutral" and Gary was quickly "negative". For instance, "Baldenkainen" was autoshot down as soon as I said it with a volcanic reaction something like "its neither here nor there and it makes me quite sore to see my characters stolen from underneath me." or something to that degree. While Rob, on the other hand, when I brought up the robot horse in RARY THE TRAITOR, in a phone conversation, he at first acted angry and then quickly was almost apologizing for them doing that. At Gencon 2002, I wandered around with Rob in almost every display. I spotted something that I knew recently featured Robilar on the robot horse (I just looked it up EPIC LEVEL HANDBOOK (2001)) and showed Rob the image. It was like, from the look on his face, he was making a saving throw from a mind blast which he passed then immediately was freaked by the fact we were dead center in the Wizards of the Coast display and I'm mocking their product very loudly. RUN!!!
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Tenser
Jan 9, 2017 11:33:30 GMT -5
Post by GRWelsh on Jan 9, 2017 11:33:30 GMT -5
I had always assumed "Rary the Traitor" was a meta-commentary on Brian Blume betraying EGG, since Rary was Brian's player character. The way it should have played out, in-game, however, was that a whimsical 3rd level magic-user who introduced himself as "Medium Rary" wouldn't have been been able to effectively betray the likes of Mordenkainen and Tenser. He would have just ended up a "Medium Rary" smoking corpse...
Not sure why Rary the Traitor was teamed up with Robilar, however... Did some people think Rob in some way betrayed EGG? If so, I wasn't aware of that perception ever being the case, at TSR, or in the fan community.
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Tenser
Jan 9, 2017 11:49:55 GMT -5
Post by GRWelsh on Jan 9, 2017 11:49:55 GMT -5
While Rob, on the other hand, when I brought up the robot horse in RARY THE TRAITOR, in a phone conversation, he at first acted angry and then quickly was almost apologizing for them doing that. The 90's are painful to think about because Rob made such an effort at reconciling with TSR right around the time it was bought by Wizards of the Coast, and for a brief golden moment it looked like Rob and EGG were actually going to be "back in" and generating Greyhawk material. There seemed to be some goodwill from Peter Adkison towards EGG, at least. But in retrospect it was like they wanted to restore the relationship, somewhat, and make use of EGG's name yet at the same time keep him at arm's length and not really give D&D and Greyhawk back to him. "We want to be able to say we're friends again, and that you're on board for 3rd edition and you think it's great, and we'd like you to write some nostalgic articles reminiscing about the early days -- but that's about it."
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Tenser
Jan 9, 2017 12:19:20 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jan 9, 2017 12:19:20 GMT -5
I can't say but from my perspective before speaking with Rob I had assumed something was being said in CITY OF GREYHAWK (1989) by Carl Sargent, Rik Rose and Douglas Niles with "Rary" being used to represent "Gary" because it divests him from the Circle of Eight. Where he is retired from the Circle and now lives in Ket but comes to the City of Greyhawk to visit his brother "Arkalan Sammal". "Those who have attended their ferociously learned conversations which stretch well in to the early hourse come away from them exhausted and with a deep sense of intellectual inferiority."
Alright so this establishes that this is how they see Gary Gygax as Rary. The now outsider who is intimidating their crap expansions at Gencon.
Then in GREYHAWK WARS (1991) by Dave "Zeb" Cook. Crapster Cook runs with this ball and even revises "Zagyg" as a unintelligent schlub:
But the real piece that got was the nerdrage torching of Kuntz and all the Gygaxs:
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Tenser
Jan 9, 2017 13:05:36 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jan 9, 2017 13:05:36 GMT -5
I think FATE OF ISTUS (1989) was primarily, in my mind at the time, made appealing that it had the name of someone from real TSR stuff because frankly who knew in 1989 that Gary Gygax was the only thing that held D&D products together? I certainly didn't. I had an inkling but thats about it. We knew GAMMA WORLD hit the shitter sooner for some reason. Little did we know that was plainly because Gygax was not involved in most 1980's TSR projects with the exception of D&D. We were so hyped by MARVEL SUPERHEROES with all its recycled Marvel artwork but that eventually wore me thin. Especially by the time the character guides came out in the late 80's I was done because it was the same shit all over again. The MSH rpg fail was the catalyst that really made me pissed because I literally bought everything year after year and it was pure unplayable garbage with it's "feat percentile". Ugh! What a joke! Anyway back to what Ernie was looking at when he was blowing fire at LGGC 2007. I think that I found it: dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5854885/Greyhawk%20Old%20GenCon%20Mid-Level%20Citadel%20of%20Eight%20Tournament%20PCs.pdfI had assumed this was an unknown Roger E. Moore thing but I think this was from 2000 post-Moore.
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Tenser
Jan 9, 2017 14:22:52 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jan 9, 2017 14:22:52 GMT -5
I would have wanted a Tenser action figure in the style of the first series. Did anyone ever confirm if the Tenser image (EDIT: in ISLE OF THE APE) was anywhere near what he looked like or was that off the mark completely?
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Tenser
Jan 11, 2017 10:35:59 GMT -5
Post by GRWelsh on Jan 11, 2017 10:35:59 GMT -5
That's a good question... I'd like to hear Ernie's reaction to that image, as well as the descriptions of Tenser in I6 and the Gord book ARTIFACT OF EVIL. EGG's descriptions are most likely accurate, however he was occasionally known to change details for published works. The drawing with the pharaonic head-dress was, I always assumed, a bit of artistic license.
This module is also where a lot of the confusion between EGG's "Citadel of Eight" (Mordenkainen and his eight PC associates from original game-play) and the magical "Circle of Eight" (Mordenkainen and a group of wizards, possibly joined together for a higher cause, a seemingly different conception) originates.
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Tenser
Jan 11, 2017 11:08:22 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jan 11, 2017 11:08:22 GMT -5
Gary held out until the end about the Circle of Eight because he didn't want me blabbing about stuff he thought that he should be paid for. This is how I laid it out and he was evasive about it:
8 principals, 8 magic-users, 8 fighters, 8 clerics, 8 thieves
The characters of the module ISLE OF THE APE are NCOs of the lowest rank so I think membership means a thief character has to be "circle 0" waits for the call then if proven worthy and neutral enough they start in Thief Circle One and so on until they reach "Circle 8" the highest position. Thats why it is Mordenkainen and the "Magic Circle of Eight". They are at Circle 8 so they assist a principal. So Yrag would be frequently assisted by the Fighting Circle of Eight of which Franz Lord of Torkeep would most likely have been initiated after the mission from 8th Magical Circle(Tenser).
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Tenser
Jan 12, 2017 12:49:59 GMT -5
Post by grodog on Jan 12, 2017 12:49:59 GMT -5
That's the 2000 AD&D Open GenCon pregen PCs for "Finger of the Wind"; some more info @ www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh_tourneys_finger_of_the_wind.htmlThe version I have isn't on the parchment paper, which these appear to be scanned from, and lacks the illustrations, but the rest appears the same (including the "Almost" in Riggy's title font). Allan.
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Tenser
Jan 20, 2017 10:00:00 GMT -5
Post by GRWelsh on Jan 20, 2017 10:00:00 GMT -5
So, was Tenser originally a character of some neutral alignment who only switched to good alignment so he could use a Crown of Power?
Am I understanding that correctly?
Switching to a good alignment for selfish reasons?!?
If so, that would make him a better fit for the Circle of Eight than I first thought.
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Tenser
Jan 20, 2017 11:18:46 GMT -5
Post by grodog on Jan 20, 2017 11:18:46 GMT -5
So, was Tenser originally a character of some neutral alignment who only switched to good alignment so he could use a Crown of Power? Switching to a good alignment for selfish reasons?!? Yes, I think that this is the reason for the switching alignment penalties in AD&D. IIRC, several of the PCs switched alignment during the campaign, primarily either a) to get artifacts, or b) to get/keep dragons. Robilar was Neutral then turned Evil; Tenser was Neutral and then turned Good. I'm sure Scott remembers the particulars better than I do. Allan.
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Tenser
Jan 20, 2017 12:52:04 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Jan 20, 2017 12:52:04 GMT -5
Tenser was neutral and turned good to use the crown. Robilar was neutral and turned evil for no meta reason.
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Tenser
Jan 20, 2017 13:01:01 GMT -5
Post by GRWelsh on Jan 20, 2017 13:01:01 GMT -5
Did Tenser and Robilar ever fight each other? I seem to remember them at least making preparations or having counter-measures ready in case they would come to blows. But I can't remember if they ever had any open conflict.
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Tenser
Jan 20, 2017 13:01:15 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jan 20, 2017 13:01:15 GMT -5
I think as Gygax was removed from the property the idioms of magic experiments became precious commodities hence all the cheap frowning on magic-use.
Looking back at myself interacting with Ernie, Rob, Gary and even Dave Arneson and hearing them talking like thats what the game was for and I had the feeling that I was brainwashed with all the wishy washy, "keep it bland" type trends coming out of products, mags and gms/players off the street.
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