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Post by geneweigel on May 26, 2016 12:03:49 GMT -5
I just browsing through magazines online and found this: archive.org/details/Science_Fantasy_47v16_1961-06-07It has the original proto-Elric with a non-soul sucking Stormbringer. Its sentient and fights for him but that is the bonus. Plus Melnibone' is more Hyborian than Middle Earth set 10,000 years in the future or maybe the past of Earth.
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foster1941
Warlock
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Post by foster1941 on May 26, 2016 12:44:33 GMT -5
That looks like maybe the same version of the story included in The Stealer of Souls, published by Lancer Books in 1967, before Moorcock revised/rewrote and rearranged the stories in the 70s to form the "canonical" 6-volume (later expanded even further) Elric Cycle. The latter is what I read back in the 80s, but 10 years or so I tracked down a copy of the older book and read it and found it really refreshing - it felt less gloomy and doom-laden than the later stuff, more adventurous and fun.
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Post by geneweigel on May 26, 2016 13:15:45 GMT -5
It was always impossible to get Elric stories unless they came out fresh. The bookstores in the early 80's never stocked them because they flew off the shelves. I had to ask for most of them. I had read the Science Fiction Book Club editions and I still have them downstairs but I had started buying the silver covers thinking they were different and I had to hunt like crazy for them. Of course, then I was like: "OOPS! ITS THE SAME SHIT!" I don't know if I even have any of those silver editions because I think they were stolen.
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Post by geneweigel on May 26, 2016 13:36:13 GMT -5
Only THE VANISHING TOWER: Its sixth printing 1986. I believe the missing ones were from 86 or 84 because I had the whole set by 1987. The two Science Fiction Book Club editions are both from 1983. Thats about right because I was reading Volume II on the way down to Florida Christmas week 1983 in the back seat zoning out.
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Post by GRWelsh on May 28, 2016 12:59:28 GMT -5
I didn't get into the Moorcock books until relatively late. On my bookshelf are the SFBC hardbacks of Elric Saga I, II and III, but I have a special fondness for the DAW Books paperbacks from the 70's with the Michael Whelan covers since they were the first ones I read. I still think of those covers as the definitive Elric illustrations, even though Elric was probably too buff on the first one.
Was this series -- along with the Poul Anderson books -- the main influence for the original Law vs. Chaos alignment system?
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Post by Scott on Jun 2, 2016 13:12:21 GMT -5
I go more with Anderson. His Law Chaos meshes better with the Good Evil association I have with OD&D alignment. I haven't read Elric since the 80s, but I seem to remember Moorcock's Law/Chaos being skewed, more like LN / CE.
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foster1941
Warlock
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Post by foster1941 on Jun 2, 2016 13:36:47 GMT -5
Yeah, when the Lords of Law show up in Stormbringer they're pretty much just as bad as the Lords of Chaos (but in a different way - they're trying to create a totalitarian emotionless machine-society), and "goodness" (as in regular humanity with love and creativity and freedom and such) is pegged to Balance between Law and Chaos. Neither Anderson nor D&D had that association that extreme Law is as bad as extreme Chaos (though Gary came sort of close to it in Dance of Demons).
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 2, 2016 18:59:13 GMT -5
Off hand it looks like Anderson's universe sets a tone and Moorcock just explored it out in his view where good (British authority = Law) is not necessarily "good" and evil (Ideally a hippy Austin Powers type = Chaos) isn't really "evil".
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 3, 2016 8:49:45 GMT -5
I think stepping back and looking at it as a whole, the Elric fiction is not bad as a continuation of the charm of original Sword & Sorcery (the feeling of which apexed in Leiber, Vance and Smith), same for other eternal counterparts, but I think somewhere the D&D connection got too big for the both of them. The Chaosium company clinging on to this (and the Lovecraft) didn't help it either.
How many players have you played with who had a chaotic character who drew the Elric chaos symbol somewhere on their character sheet?
I know he ripped that off from somewhere but still he popularized it.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 3, 2016 15:33:21 GMT -5
Here is some weird shit the Hawkwind Elric concert with Moorcock on stage narrating from 1985: www.youtube.com/watch?v=STNrzt5jKvoI think at that time I had bought HALL OF THE MOUNTAIN GRILL (1974) having heard of the Elric stuff going on with Hawkwind and it was a bit of a let down. I still always think of THE YOUNG ONES (1982-1984), a show MTV used to air in the mid-80's, had an episode that had hippies freaking out over Hawkwind.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jun 6, 2016 8:18:32 GMT -5
I got a HAWKMOON hardback in the mail over the weekend that I ordered from Amazon. So, I thought I'd try that one next. I read the Elric and Corum stories, back in the 80's, but never got around to reading Hawkmoon.
The Elric stories always remind me of the first time I saw the back cover of S2: White Plume Mountain. Not the original pastel version by Erol Otus, but the later color version by Bill Willingham. 1981? Someone had to tell me that was "basically" Elric and Stormbringer because I hadn't read the Moorcock books yet. Later on, in high school, there was a kid who was a big fan of the Elric stuff, and always had these super-powerful characters who "served Chaos" ... crazy stuff. I remember he had a high level Drow fighter/assassin named Arioch who was the leader of a "Drow elf hit squad" and he had it out for this other kid who always played super-powerful high elves and gray elves that everyone hated because he was a known cheater (elf fighter/magic-user with 18 str, 18 int and 18 dex is one that stands out in my mind... also, used to pull shady stuff with his die rolls).
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 6, 2016 10:43:33 GMT -5
Heh, I can't recall if I still have that or not. It was another combined edition. I just tracked down my first, and worst, exposure to Moorcock. If you recall, I had mentioned the old country house being a dumping ground for sci-fi fans of another age where you could find all kinds of shit from the 1970's to the 1800's. Then in the late 70's it was sacked by an in-law who spread rumors about people using books for kindling. Subsequently, "his sci-fi collection", which I saw myself was cherry picked from the library, there was no way this cheap fuck had bought any of it, burned when their house caught on fire. Anyway, this is the first Moorcock book that I had read: sf-encyclopedia.uk/gallery.php?id=Moorcock-Final-AB.jpgIf you see the cover on that page it: 1) Has a naked lady. 2)Its in child-luring comic book format It was the Summer of 1978 so I was 9. <<<CRINGE>>> You want to talk about a weird ass story. Its like Elric in feeling except its in late 60's modern times and there is a transsexual ending. Its not outright homosexual but you can tell that Michael had problems with that last name of his growing up for sure. When later reading the Elric books I had sought out this book to recall what the fuck was going on but it disappeared with the purge mentioned above.
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
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Post by foster1941 on Jun 6, 2016 11:26:38 GMT -5
I got a HAWKMOON hardback in the mail over the weekend that I ordered from Amazon. So, I thought I'd try that one next. I read the Elric and Corum stories, back in the 80's, but never got around to reading Hawkmoon. I never read the Hawkmoon series BITD either and have just gotten around to it recently. I read the first book a couple years ago and liked it well enough that I went immediately on to the second book, but found it very disappointing and didn't bother going on to the third at the time. I don't remember what specifically I didn't like about it - I think it just felt bland and generic. I finally read the third one a couple months ago and liked it pretty well. I have a copy of the 4th book but haven't read it yet - I probably will later this year. It's part of my effort to finish off all of the "DMG Appendix N" books that I never got around to earlier. I've finally, as of this year, gotten to the point where I've read at least one book by every author on that list, every book mentioned by name, and at least one book from every named series. I still have this and a couple other series (Lin Carter's "World's End," Gardner Fox's "Kyrik," Burroughs' "Pellucidar" and "Venus") that I haven't read completely. I plan to read the Carter and Fox books eventually (not least because I already have copies of all of them), but I'm not sure I'll bother with the Burroughs stuff.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 6, 2016 13:35:03 GMT -5
I also have to mention that I think that Jerry Cornelius cover was unique because I have never seen anything like it again. Speaking of weird illustrations, here is a weird one that disappeared from the library was this nightmare: www.letterology.com/2013/10/bedevilled-and-bedazzled.htmlThe illustrated DEVIL'S DICTIONARY. Man, that shit should not have been around kids at all. Half the children's books from the 60's had that style. Everytime I mentioned DEVIL'S DICTIONARY being a picture book in the 80's people looked at me like I was crazy.
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Post by geneweigel on Jul 12, 2016 10:48:55 GMT -5
You know how you can talk and talk about a subject and something will be right in front of your nose and you'll just completely forget that relevant piece. Here is a bad late 70's memory: www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=18683102093&searchurl=isbn%3D0380429861%26sortby%3D17This book was my second foray into Michael Moorcock based on the fantasy related things name-dropping "Moorcock" and having already read the precious 1972 Conan comic Elric appearances. This book was the one that set the tone with Moorcock for me and it was grating to get through.
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Post by geneweigel on Jul 12, 2016 10:50:15 GMT -5
I put that link because that is what it looked like when I read it.
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