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Post by geneweigel on Jun 10, 2016 14:44:46 GMT -5
I was trying to figure out my campaign's version of the Wild Coast. Originally they all had one leader who I had created as a leader of thieves in a pre-GH campaign of mine lets call him "A" he was given the leadership position because he had epithets "Wooly" in front and "the Wild" after his name so it fit in with Wooly Bay and Wild Coast even though he had nothing to do with any shore area originally. He was the leader of river bandits originally on "The Rhine".
Narwell "A" Safeton "A" Fax "A" Badwall "A" Elredd "A" Then the North was taken over by "B" a character that I created for my WOG campaign who captured Narwell and Safeton. He was deliberately made to be a disposable scumbag to be killed but I think the players were fond of his bullshit after a while.
Narwell "B" Safeton "B" Fax "A" Badwall "A" Elredd "A"
"B" is driven out of Safeton by the forces of "C" a goodly freebooter aided by the characters who takes over Safeton. (This is at the time of the Cthulhu adventure.)
Narwell "B" Safeton "C" Fax "A" Badwall "A" Elredd "A"
The FATE OF ISTUS module comes out in 1989 and "A" is quietly removed from Elredd as well as there is an "official" leader from the module "Brego Hammerfist". So I erased the name on a partially blank but illustrated sheet from a captain of "A" that I had made lets call him "D".
Narwell "B" Safeton "C" Fax "A" Badwall "A" Elredd "D"
Then I thought it best to give a separate leader for each town I gave Badwall a separate leader lets call him "E".
Narwell "B" Safeton "C" Fax "A" Badwall "E" Elredd "D"
So the original "A" character I imported into the combined Europe campaign when I "Tharizduun-ed" the WOG in 1997 and he was on "the Rhine" for real this time.
Then when that fizzled out then after the Third Edition period reviving a nutty version of Greyhawk I had pieced together the original campaign so instead of "the Rhine" the "A" character was given a new river and "D" has been restored as one of his captains.
I don't think anyone will remember "C" and "E" but I might bring back "B" again.
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Post by Scott on Jun 10, 2016 15:12:43 GMT -5
I have Narwell and Safeton as not particularly wild, at least on the surface. Clerics of St. Cuthbert have some influence there. But it get's wilder the further south you go with Elredd being almost Tortuga.
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Post by Scott on Jun 10, 2016 15:34:25 GMT -5
On the map I posted previously, I have the southwest coast of the eastern land mass as a Wild Coast area. The Pomarj like area is the peninsula across the waterway, with the area just north of it replacing the Bright Desert.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 10, 2016 15:51:43 GMT -5
If you follow the story in ARTIFACT OF EVIL (1986) it seems like the Jewel River is the Western river. It never comes up though. I would go with its a tributary but Elves don't share information so its often called the Western Jewel.
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Jun 10, 2016 16:18:42 GMT -5
If you follow the story in ARTIFACT OF EVIL (1986) it seems like the Jewel River is the Western river. It never comes up though. I would go with its a tributary but Elves don't share information so its often called the Western Jewel. The WoG description of the Welkwood forest differentiates the areas east (part of the Wild Coast) and west (part of Celene) of the Jewel River, so at least at that time the name applied to the eastern fork. If AoE implies the western fork is the Jewel then that goes in the same bucket as Mauve Castle (presumably Gary was referring to Darlene's map as he was writing and wasn't bother to look stuff up). EDIT: going it one better, I see the Darlene's map actually labels the eastern fork as the Jewel River
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Jun 10, 2016 16:31:09 GMT -5
I have Narwell and Safeton as not particularly wild, at least on the surface. Clerics of St. Cuthbert have some influence there. But it get's wilder the further south you go with Elredd being almost Tortuga. I like Elredd as Tortuga/Pirate town a lot. It fits the location and what he know of the origin of the area in the home campaign. Safeton as a refuge-city that draws in the poor and displaced from all over also works (it goes with the name) and that fits with the church of St. Cuthbert being powerful and influential there. I like the notion that the town is becoming more and more crowded with refugees from the south, and it's becoming a crisis. I already shared earlier in the thread my ideas about Narwell (and having a St. Cuthbert influence there as well isn't incompatible with that - they just become another faction, presumably allied with the church in Safeton). Badwall we know from AoE is mostly poor and rundown backwater that nowadays is mostly a staging ground for mercenaries and expeditions into the Suss Forest. Presumably it used to be a better place with a thriving timber industry, but that's mostly dried up now. That leaves Fax as a question mark, but I just came up with a fun idea for it at lunch: We know that the crest for Fax is pretty close to the Gygax crest (as seen on the cover of the DMG and WoG boxed set) so it occurred to me that maybe Fax could be a fantasy version of Lake Geneva. We already know that Tenser, Robilar, etc. are from the Wild Coast; let's say they're from Fax. Include the old ruined sanitarium, various mansions of rich bootleggers, a horse farm, the earthly location of Murlynd's mansion (which transports those who enter it to the Land Beyond the Magic Mirror), unflattering caricatures of various ex-TSR folks, etc. This would also, due to its convenient location right in the center of the map, be the default "start" location for new parties. Or is that too cheesy?
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Post by Scott on Jun 10, 2016 16:51:42 GMT -5
That's an interesting idea. It's middle of the road flavor also fits in with the neutral alignment most of those characters started with.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 10, 2016 17:53:27 GMT -5
Another aspect of the river is that it appears exactly as it does on the Darlene map in the the novel with the upper East clearly labeled as such.
Another weird thing is the location of the Suloise ruin is not where it is described in the Folio/Gazetteer and the point of this being mentioned was that everyone was looking for it. Gord comes up with the idea the Jewel has moved. They are in and out of that fork and there is no mention of it.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 10, 2016 22:33:31 GMT -5
Wow, I found that Campaign Cartographer called it the "Amberflow" and bad TSR called it the "Handmaiden River". If I was pressed when I made that map I would have named it the "Mir"... <<<CRINGE>>>
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Post by GRWelsh on Jun 11, 2016 11:05:54 GMT -5
That would be your Aragorns, Gandalfs (kind of), i.e. your accomplished adventurers, plus nobles, and other assorted elf friends. That seems about right. I had envisioned the men living in Celene as woodsmen led by rangers, not too unlike the Rangers of Eriador in Middle Earth.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 11, 2016 12:11:29 GMT -5
Where are the nobles who refused the dwarves' help? Safeton seems too grungy but Courwood might be the more likely spot. If not directly with the elves, because of the racial thing mentioned in Pomarj, then why not with the humans dwelling within Celene?
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Post by Scott on Jun 11, 2016 14:02:37 GMT -5
Yes, probably more rangers than average. A good number of woodsmen. Maybe a few of the nobler nobles from the Pomarj, but I'd put most of the survivors in Ulek and the Wild Coast.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 11, 2016 21:51:59 GMT -5
Here is a breakdown of the general feel of the areas.
Celene's random encounters list:
3% Dwarves 37% Elves 6% Gnomes 4% Halflings 3% Humanoids 27% Men Standard AD&D 20%
Ulek random encounters list:
Demihumans 4% Dwartves 13% Gnomes 4% Halfling Stouts 3% Humanoids 2% Men 39% Standard AD&D 45%
Pomarj random encounters list:
Bugbears 2% Gnolls 3% Gnolls and Flinds1% Goblins 6% Goblins and Xvarts 3% Hobgoblins 2% Hobgoblins and Norkers 1% Kobolds 2% Men 10% Norkers2% Ogres 1% Ogrillons 1% Orcs 7% Orcs and Ogrillons 3% Trolls 1% Standard AD&D 55%
Wild Coast random encounters list:
Demi-humans 5% Humanoids 7% Men 28% Standard AD&D 60%
NOTE: Celene and Ulek have human pilgrims and Pomarj and Wild Coast do not.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 12, 2016 8:47:20 GMT -5
Sorry for Pomarj thats 35% Humanoids to 10% Men. I had left in the details as is for the humanoids because I thought it was irrelevant but looking at it now. I combined the subrace details for demi-humans down to the main race (dwarves, gnomes, etc.) so where it says "Demihumans" thats from the chart.
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Post by Scott on Jun 13, 2016 14:41:50 GMT -5
Some more food for flavor thought. Some minifig sets close to the area: lots of Hardby Amazons. Berserker mercenaries Wild Coast/Pomarj Hireling men-at-arms: Wild Coast Petty Kingdoms Human forest warriors: Celene/Ulek Halfling fighters: Celene/Ulek/Cairn Hills Wyvern: Celene This is a weird one. Dragonnel & Lancer/archer/pole-axemen: Pomarj Magnus Dragonnel: Pomarj
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Post by GRWelsh on Jun 13, 2016 18:01:16 GMT -5
Here's a link to a page listing the Minifigs with some photos of them: greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com/2008/06/minifigs-greyhawk-miniatures.htmlHere's a link with some checklists, including one specific to Greyhawk: www.dndlead.com/minifigs/Minifigs.htmAnd another similar page: web.archive.org/web/20050205204432/http://users.accesscomm.ca/lmec/fgo_mfwg.htmAnd I copied this from a post on the Acaeum forum: Mini Figs WORLD OF GREYHAWK Approved and authorized by TSR from the TSR Dungeon Hobby Shop March 1981 catalog
WOG1-45 - $3.98
WOG01 Amazon Infantry (6) swords, flails – Hardby (Wild Coast) WOG02 Amazon Infantry (6) axes, spears, bow, polearm - Hardby (Wild Coast) WOG03 Amazon Cavalry (3) spears, bow - Hardby (Wild Coast) WOG04 Amazon Cavalry (3) swords, axe - Hardby (Wild Coast) WOG05 Berserker Mercenaries (6) swords, spears, javelins – Wild Coast/Pomarj WOG06 Hireling Men-at-Arms (6) axes, spears, bows – Wild Coast petty kingdoms WOG07 Men-at-Arms of the Watch (6) axes, spears, bows - Greyhawk WOG08 Infantry of the Guilds (6) spears, crossbows - Greyhawk WOG09 Cavemen (6) spears, clubs – Cairn Hills WOG10 Valley Elf Infantry (6) axes, swords – Valley of the Mage WOG11 Valley Elf Infantry (6) bows, spears – Valley of the Mage WOG12 Valley Elf King & Guards (6) pole-arms – Valley of the Mage WOG13 Valley Elf Cavalry (2) lances – Valley of the Mage WOG14 Valley Elf Cavalry (2) sword, bow – Valley of the Mage WOG15 Mounted Knights (3) lance, sword, axe - Furyondy WOG16 Knights on Foot (6) swords, axes, pole-arms – Furyondy WOG17 Freeholder Infantry (6) spears, bows – Furyondy/Veluna WOG18 The Steadfast Pike (6) pikes - Veluna WOG19 Free City Foot (6) spears, swords, bows - Dyvers WOG20 Zombie & Skeleton Infantry (6) swords, spears - Iuz WOG21 Zombie & Skeleton Infantry (6) assorted weapons – Iuz WOG22 Goblin Infantry (6) swords, axes - Iuz WOG23 Goblin Infantry (6) bows, crossbows, hand catapults - Iuz WOG24 Goblin Chieftain & Guards (6) spears, pole-arms - Iuz WOG25 Human Forest Warriors (6) swords, axes, spear, pole-arm – Celene/Ulek WOG26 Human Forest Warriors (6) bows, crossbows, slings - Celene/Ulek WOG27 Mounted Knights (3) lance, axe, sword – Veluna/Verbobonc WOG28 Heavy Missile Infantry (6) bows, crossbows – Furyondy/Veluna/Shield Lands WOG29 Light Missile Infantry (6) bows, crossbows, slings – Feryondy[sic]/Veluna/Shield Lands WOG30 Mounted Knights (3) lance, mace, sword – Shield Lands WOG31 Knights on Foot (6) swords, axes, pole-arms – Shield Lands WOG32 Freeholder Infantry (6) spears, bows – Shield Lands WOG33 Esquire (Medium) Horse (3) lance, sword, axe - Furyondy/Veluna/Shield Lands WOG34 Brethren Foot Guards (4) spears – Scarlet Brotherhood WOG35 Hierarch, Headsman, Amazon Captive on Torture Stake – Horned Society WOG36 Ice or Snow Barbarian Foot (6) swords, bows – Lands of Snow & Ice Barbarians WOG37 Ice or Snow Barbarian Foot (6) axes, spears - Lands of Snow & Ice Barbarians WOG38 Ice or Snow Barbarian Cavalry (3) spears - Lands of Snow & Ice Barbarians WOG39 Ice or Snow Barbarian Cavalry (3) spears, scything axe - Lands of Snow & Ice Barbarians WOG40 Mounted Knights (3) lance, mace, sword – Bandit Kingdoms WOG41 Brigand Infantry (6) swords, spears, bows – Celene/Ulek/Cairn Hills WOG42 Halfling Fighters (6) swords, axes, spear, bow -Celene/Ulek/Cairn Hills WOG43 Wandering Adventurers, magic user, cleric, bard, halfling thief [no territory given for WOG43-48] WOG44 Heroic Mercenary Foot (5) axes, spear, bow WOG45 Heroic Mercenary Foot (5) swords
WOG46-56 - $4.98
WOG46 Heroic Mercenary Cavalry (2) swords WOG47 Heroic Mercenary Cavalry (2) short sword, spear WOG48 Heroic Mercenary Cavalry (2) morning star, bow
WOG49 Elite Death-Guard Cavalry (2) lances – Horned Society WOG50 Overking's Heavy Guard Cavalry (2) lances – Great Kingdom WOG51 Overking's Heavy Guard Cavalry (2) axe, sword – Great Kingdom WOG52 Overking's Heavy Guard Foot (6) spears, axe, blow-pipe – Great Kingdom WOG53 Overking's Heavy Guard Foot (6) pole-arms, swords – Great Kingdom WOG54 Wyvern (1) - Celene WOG55 Harginn Elemental Grue - Elemental of Plain of Fire -(conjured by) Iuz WOG56 Iuz Enthroned & Evil Halflings (4) - evil demi-god & minions - Iuz
WOG57-59 - $5.98
WOG57 Dragonnel & Lancer (1) - Pomarj WOG58 Dragonnel & Archer (1) - Pomarj WOG59 Dragonnel & Pole-axeman (1) - Pomarj
WOG60 - $7.98
WOG60 Magnus Dragonnel (1) - Pomarj
WOG61-72 - not listed in this catalog WOG61 Dragonnettes (2) WOG62 Giant Spider, Rat, Beetle WOG63 Flying Dinosaur, Armored Dinosaur WOG64 Aquatic Dragonnel (1) WOG65 Monster Stoppers: Catapult and Dart Thrower WOG66 Unicorn, Beasts and Hounds WOG67 Elite Death Guard Cavalry, axe, sword WOG68 Orcs, sword, pole-arms, bows WOG69 Gnolls, swords, pole-arms, bows WOG70 Half-Orcs, various weapons WOG71 Mounted Men-at-Arms of the Watch WOG72 Rovers of the Barrens
(Note: actual 1981 catalog entries do not list # of figures)
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Post by Scott on Jun 13, 2016 18:59:41 GMT -5
I forgot about the Greyhawk specific info in the dragonnel entry in the MM II. There must have been something outlined that included these critters.
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Jun 13, 2016 20:02:02 GMT -5
I don't think I ever noticed that dragonnel MM2 description before (my eyes probably just passed over it because there's no illustration). It seems likely the monster was inspired by the mini-set, rather than the other way around. They're certainly crying out to be used in adventures set in this region, though!
Re the Hardby amazons, Gary did a "monster" write-up for amazons that showed up in an issue of Polyhedron c. 1984 that I'd never seen until somebody pointed it out to me a few weeks ago. It's fun - they're basically 6-7' tall Barbarian women with really high stats (including Str up to 18/00) and bonus damage in unarmed combat [EDIT: and 2 attacks/round, and never surprised except by invisible opponents]. I included the write-up in the latest revision of my "AD&D Companion."
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 13, 2016 20:37:40 GMT -5
Gary was in on Minfigs and Grenadier but not the TSR brand miniatures which is weird.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 13, 2016 22:51:40 GMT -5
In regards to the Amazons I was aware of them but I had it from an unknown source and I wasn't aware it was POLYHEDRON until the mid-2000s just like the Ultimist. I had photocopies but not sure what it was from.
The girl in AOE (1986) is a Hardby amzaon so there was definitely a notion for amazons.
I only joined the RPGA when AD&D started to fizzle at the dawn of Second Edition. I still have the pin and the badge somewhere but all the AD&D material of older POLYHEDRON mags were gone by that time. Summer of 1983 was my biggest order from the DUNGEON HOBBY SHOP. I wish that I still had that catalog talk about weird nuanced unknown miniatures in lists.
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