foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Apr 21, 2016 13:50:54 GMT -5
In my paranoid mind, I'm thinking that GT, in his absence, has been secretly drafted by Gail and he's pulling his hair out with Troy, Creffield & others misleading him down T$R style "dis-imaginary" roads as they do a current D&D friendly version of Castle Greyhawk/Zagyg. That's disconcertingly plausible :/
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Post by Scott on Apr 21, 2016 14:07:48 GMT -5
Not GT. He's been trapped in the Abyss of Parents with Dependent Children. I know it well.
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Post by GRWelsh on Apr 21, 2016 14:11:56 GMT -5
Right now, the contents of that binder scanned with commentary from original participants would be the best I could hope for. That's what I would do with it, if I had control of it. To do anything else with it seems presumptuous. It's not just the best to be hoped for, it's the only treatment that is appropriate and respectful.
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Post by geneweigel on Apr 21, 2016 16:56:16 GMT -5
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on May 6, 2016 7:34:27 GMT -5
Scott has called it... GT is trapped in the world of the mundane! The only game stuff I do currently is for my own fun on my computer... ^__^
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Post by geneweigel on May 6, 2016 8:47:07 GMT -5
Scott has called it... GT is trapped in the world of the mundane! The only game stuff I do currently is for my own fun on my computer... ^__^ NOOOOO!!!! Is there some way someone can guide you out of this... this... Greyhawk dungeon level? Gene looks around seeing the same similar scenario in his own mundane universe.HELP!!!! We need a virtua-Gary made of Gygax responses from e-mails and forums... Well, maybe on the good days...
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Post by grodog on Sept 28, 2016 14:50:04 GMT -5
I think we should even expand to what the hell else exists besides GREYHAWK, BLACKMOOR, EL RAJA KEYE and DUNGEON HOBBY SHOP DUNGEON? Is there another ur-dungeon from that era? Yes, there are definitely some other ur-dungeons from that era that still exist (or at least could/should): - Phil Barker's Jakallan Underworld for EPT is definitely still around; see blog.tekumelfoundation.org/2016/02/18/new-projects/ for some hopeful news that we'll see it one day - Mike Mornard's Ramshorn Castle dungeons (which incorporated at least part of RJK's ERK levels into them, at some point) - Jim Ward's DragonLands campaign had at least one big dungeon - Tim Kask's Kwalishar Ruins dungeon exists, although I've not heard that Tim has plans to publish it; summary details @ www.acaeum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=50566#p50566I don't recall whether Don Kaye had created any dungeons between 1972 and his death on 31 Jan 1975, and don't know whether Brian Blume, Mike Carr, Dave Megarry, or Dave Sutherland also created their down contemporary mega-dungeons. Rob has talked about creating dungeons for Don and playing in one from Sutherland before, but I don't know about the rest of the crew. Allan.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 29, 2016 7:05:18 GMT -5
I talked with Gary about Don Kaye and "Murlynd" was just "Merlin" altered for published Greyhawk so he could be upfront as a name. This is from him yapping about miniatures and him making them from scratch and him mentioning Don Kaye. I immediately had associated "Kaye" with the text on Murlynd from the EX2 BEYOND THE MAGIC MIRROR (1983) and his reaction was calling him "Merlin" and me saying "Isn't it Murlynd?" and him saying it was altered for publication. The rest was mostly reiteration from the adventure and the quasi-deity material in DRAGON #71 (MAR 1983) reprinted in the 1983 WOG boxed set. That text does say that the Alice in Dungeonland series house is not his sole residence:
and the quasi-deity intro says the article is a reaction to the work on the Alice in Dungeonland series:
So the info in the article is post "EX series" and would suggest that there just might be some kind of "Merlin's Dungeon" somewhere
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Sept 29, 2016 10:01:26 GMT -5
I like that The Land Beyond The Magic Mirror's original module code designation was "GC S8/X2," indicating presumably that it's the second extradimensional level (Dungeonland presumably being the first) reached via dungeon level S8 in Greyhawk Castle. It's too bad they dropped that and went with the "EX" code instead.
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Post by grodog on Sept 29, 2016 11:00:46 GMT -5
I like that The Land Beyond The Magic Mirror's original module code designation was "GC S8/X2," indicating presumably that it's the second extradimensional level (Dungeonland presumably being the first) reached via dungeon level S8 in Greyhawk Castle. It's too bad they dropped that and went with the "EX" code instead. I wonder if there are other alternate modules codes worth IDing and tracking down for Greyhawk adventures? Here are the ones I'm aware of: GC S8/X1 --> GC1 Dungeonland --> EX1 GC S8/X2 --> GC2 Land Beyond the Magic Mirror --> EX2 WG1 Village of Hommlet --> T1 WG2 Temple of Elemental Evil --> T2 --> T1-4 WG3 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth --> S4 WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun WG5 Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure WG6 Isle of the Ape I wonder if there were alternate codes at some point for other early EGG modules like S1, S3, G1-3, D1-3, or others planned for other early tourneys, ERK, etc.? The GC S8/X1 nomenclature matches Rob's and Gary's way describing level names relative to one another in the Expanded Castle: GC S8 = Greyhawk Castle Split Level 8 (I think, it could be Greyhawk Castle Level 8 South too, perhaps). Bottle City was on level 2 and was designated as "Alternate 16". Other levels that Rob sold were named as: - GC L3E S = "LV3-split East. A special level with the protoype "Garden" of the Plantmaster in it, a Giants "Pool Hall", and the resting place of my creation, the first "ring of shooting stars." "
- GC L8E = "LV8 East. The Original "Machine Level," playtested by EGG and adventured on by dozens, including James Ward's PC, Bombadil. Repair robots, washing tubs, insane machinery, and floors with conveyer belts moving one to these areas."
- GC L11C = "LV11-Core. Whole elevator rooms/complex which actually moves up a whole 1/8 of the map to the levels above, with ending point covering pit (never found by adventurers) with a great magic item in it. Entrance to land of OZ."
- GC L12C = "LV12-Core (Boreal Level). Ice/Snow level (Arctic Level). Frost King, Ice Worms Trap area with many holes, boreal clime."
- GC L13C = "LV13-Core. Original Lord of Light with my "Orb of Brightness" (later renamed by EGG as "Gem of Brightness"), Hidden Tomb with staff of wizards, Corridors of Distance, access points to Asgard, Melnibonae, Dying Earth, sinking/rising rough hewn room to levels below and above."
- GC L14C = "LV14-Core. Access to deeper regions of the castle, bridge over void with Flame guardian, 3 Kings throne room (massive)--MU, F, Cl--where one of the artifacts for clerics was located."
All descriptions in quotes from the old PPP site. I'll dig up my auction descriptions to see if he provided any more info about the levels in those. The El Raja Key levels employed a similar nomenclature style too: the underground lake level off of level 5 was "ERK05 S Lake" for example Allan.
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Post by grodog on Feb 25, 2021 22:15:06 GMT -5
Guys—
What was Gary’s original inscription text that the PCs would read when descending into dungeon level 1?
Allan.
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Post by Scott on Feb 25, 2021 22:24:32 GMT -5
I will have to see if I can find the exact quote. It was a warning about the danger increasing the deeper you went, but the treasures get better.
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Post by grodog on Feb 25, 2021 23:01:51 GMT -5
Thanks, Scott!
I though Gary mentioned it in one of his Drsgon Annual articles, but apparently not.
Allan.
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Post by grodog on Mar 1, 2021 13:54:26 GMT -5
Any luck digging over the weekend?
Allan.
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Post by Scott on Mar 1, 2021 14:31:41 GMT -5
I remembered it was in the original Tenser write up I did with Ernie's help, but I can't find it. It may have been deleted when I deleted my original boards.
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Post by Scott on Mar 1, 2021 14:41:41 GMT -5
Found this: "Tenser was the first magic user ever in Greyhawk. No books or previous experience existed. The first spell I took was a Read Magic and I used it to read the glyphs above a stairway leading down (level 1 to 2). It told us (Rob, Terry and I) that as you descend into the depths of the Dungeon the encounters will be more difficult but the rewards far grander. At 3rd level when facing off with an Evil 5th level mage I asked to join him and turn to Evil with him. He laughed stripped me naked and released me on the 3rd level to die. I made it to the surface. Took a rock in hand and set an ambush on another low level wandering mage. This stocked me with a new outfit, but I truly missed my now missing paralyzation wand.
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 2, 2021 7:32:45 GMT -5
I love it that his DM wouldn't let him join with evil and later bribed him with an artifact to become good.
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Post by Scott on Mar 2, 2021 8:30:09 GMT -5
Tenser could have turned evil at that point. The crown just wouldn't let him be neutral. I'm curious what the alignment system was at this time. Robilar is known as lawful evil, and Tenser Lawful good. but they may have still been using the three alignment system; it happened pretty early.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 2, 2021 9:29:43 GMT -5
Tenser could have turned evil at that point. The crown just wouldn't let him be neutral. I'm curious what the alignment system was at this time. Robilar is known as lawful evil, and Tenser Lawful good. but they may have still been using the three alignment system; it happened pretty early. The first mention of good and evil deliberately as "alignments" instead of an aspect of the game that sometimes coincides with an alignment was in THE STRATEGIC REVIEW (Volume 2 Issue 1 SEPTEMBER 1976) in the article "THE MEANING OF LAW AND CHAOS IN DUNGEONS & DRAGONS AND THEIR RELATIONSHIPS TO GOOD AND EVIL by Gary Gygax". Prior to this in the 1974 boxed set "evil/good" is a major aspect of play that is mentioned often and 90% associated with chaos/law in that order but not always. Its almost as if pushing the limits on alignment gave rise to the faster association of morals into the alignment system. Here is a good example:
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Post by grodog on Apr 14, 2021 17:25:45 GMT -5
Found in this in the DMG section on The Campaign, but still haven't found the phrase for the glyphs themselves:
Allan.
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