analysis: Moathouse dungeon vs. DMG Sample Dungeon

[grodog]

Timrod's blog has some good analysis of the similarities between the T1 moathouse dungeon and the DMG sample dungeon. The series is currently in 5 parts:

• unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/01/dmg-sample-dungeon-part-1-background.html
  
• unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/01/dmg-sample-dungeon-part-2-down-stairs.html
  
• unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/02/dmg-sample-dungeon-part-3-room-3-and.html
  
• unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/02/dmg-sample-dungeon-part-4-cult-of-fiery.html
  
• unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/09/more-fodder-in-case-of-sample-dungeon.html
  

I think he makes some pretty convincing arguments. What do you guys think?

[geneweigel]

The narrative of that blog is hard to tell when he's speaking or quoting.

My opinion is that he's right. All Gygax's stuff is Castle Greyhawk fragments some moreso than others so no surprise there. But in regards to the Moathouse/Hommlet? That is Castle Greyhawk/Greyhawk City redone for a new concept that was a miniaturized adventure ala "adventure module" that we are all now way, way,way familiar with. Perhaps too familiar to ever consider Gary's first approach to it. The sample dungeon (Monastery) is a cutaway of CG too thats why it does not match up in places to the sample adventure.

[GRWelsh]

We discussed it a bit in this thread: doomsdaygames.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=adventures&action=display&thread=561&page=1

I think it is at least plausible that they are related, or that the Sample Dungeon was used as a kind of 'rough draft' for the moathouse. Sure, why not?

Just a side note -- the Sample Dungeon is the more primitive design... the Moathouse gets a little bit away from everything being based on the 10' squares with 10' + thick areas of rock separating the halls and the rooms... So, that is an additional reason to think if one influenced the other, it was most likely the Sample Dungeon preceded the Moathouse.

[geneweigel]

Thats funny some of these blogs are echoing what I and others have said since the 90's about things when it was a little harder to find interest in the nuance of Gygax.

I can't even keep track of what I've said anymore!

[Scott]

I think it's way too much over thinking. I think Gary just needed an idea for the DMG so he re-hashed the basics from T1.

[geneweigel]

Heh, looking back, this old-school-blog-scrutiny of older things rings a bell of the "phantasmal fudges" of yesterday! "WHY-IS-THIS-IN-THIS-ROOM?" type "cheaters-all-around" play. Right?