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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 3, 2012 16:02:59 GMT -5
"Playing at the World" by Jon Peterson. Anyone get this yet? Or read it?
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 3, 2012 17:46:47 GMT -5
Is this it? www.amazon.com/Playing-at-World-Jon-Peterson/dp/0615642047It looks interesting especially the comic book references which at first glance seem to be a lot of assumptions that I made (Doctor Strange, etc.) but I'm not sure what that chapter is referring to. I could have pointed him in the right direction but he'd still be researching Gary's comic trail because its huge.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 3, 2012 18:11:44 GMT -5
Yes, that's it. It's in my Amazon cart, and I'm about to order it. But I was just wondering if anyone else had it yet.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 3, 2012 20:13:32 GMT -5
It seems like piles of stuff from Gary and others all in one place so it definitely seems worth a look. Its a lot of stuff that I've seen already. I've seen so much crap that I don't even know whats common knowledge. I was perusing old 1960-1970's Playboys a few years back and I found what I believe was the source of the PLAYERS HANDBOOK cover and the succubus from the MONSTER MANUAL. I don't know if thats in there but they should be!
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Post by grodog on Sept 3, 2012 21:46:33 GMT -5
@ Gary: Playing at the World looks pretty detailed and rich, to me, and that's just from reading the Amazon Kindle preview thus far---my copy should be arriving this week. I think that there's a lot of early wargaming/proto-Chainmail/Chainmail history that'll be new info/data to most folks, given the scarcity of the sources that Jon's assembled.
@ Gene: The MM succubus is definitely from Playboy; I'm curious to hear more about the PHB source!
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 3, 2012 22:40:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I got the succubus superimposed over a picture of the girl in the tub and the demon I forgot what issue I got it from but its another Gahan Wilson like the auctioned one hanging in Gary's basement. It most likely was pulled down for reference and never returned at least thats my theory.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 3, 2012 22:44:01 GMT -5
Here they are Attachments:
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Post by grodog on Sept 4, 2012 9:30:20 GMT -5
I've never seen either. You mentioned the auctioned Wilson one; do you have a link to the auction, by chance?
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 4, 2012 11:06:02 GMT -5
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 4, 2012 11:18:02 GMT -5
The girl's face doesn't match but there is another issue with the girl's face that Sutherland used for it. I believe she is on the cover.
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Post by grodog on Sept 5, 2012 22:01:40 GMT -5
Yes, Paul had gotten the details from Sutherland while he was still alive; she was in the Feb 1977 issue, supposedly.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 13, 2012 8:07:53 GMT -5
I received this book yesterday. I got home later in the evening, so I didn't get a lot of time to look at it. But just based on the browsing I've done so far, this looks exactly like what I wanted and was hoping it would be: a serious historical treatment of the early development of RPG's out of wargames, D&D in particular. Maybe it is because one of my majors was history that I love this sort of treatment. One of my long-held hopes was that Gary (and perhaps Rob) would publish an annotated Dungeons of Castle Greyhawk, with scans of the original notes and maps, old character sheets and reminiscences of the games as they were played back in the 1970's. I think Rob seemed to be doing some of this, such as with Bottle City. And Gary did provide many recollections in Dragon Magazine articles and online. At a certain point, I wanted to see a unified, historical treatment more than a "modernized and made easy for consumption" version of the original dungeon. It's not that I don't like Castle Zagyg: Upper Works, as published -- I like what I've played through so far -- it's just that over time I became more interested in what the original really was like, rather than a modern re-imagining of it. It looks like this "Playing at the World" book by Peterson is finally going to scratch this itch, at least as much as might be possible now that EGG is gone.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 13, 2012 9:30:29 GMT -5
I just saw that this guy who wrote this says he has a pre-D&D test rules: playingattheworld.blogspot.com/2012_09_01_archive.htmlWell, as interesting as this is I'd take it with a grain of salt as I noticed a module that was put forth as a legitimate fan effort of the early 80's last year or so as a retro-style effort. I have an artistic eye so I noticed the art style was based on a modern trend of crude cartoon art seen in comics and some video games which gives it away. So I think there are people out there who'd do a hoax of this as well for no good reason.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 13, 2012 10:52:26 GMT -5
Yeah, you're right. You have to be skeptical of everything these days. What kind of sad sack would write a 600 page book targeted to a very narrow audience, full of documentation and quotes that can checked on by people with still living memories of those days -- and is a fraud? A very sad sack indeed.
But all I can give are my initial impressions, so far -- and the book seems exhaustive and legit. It cites a lot of sources. It looks like a professional history book.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 13, 2012 12:06:45 GMT -5
Heh, I'm not talking about the book "PLAYING AT THE WORLD", I'm specifically talking about the test rules (he calls the Dalluhn manuscipt) on the link.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 13, 2012 15:14:44 GMT -5
Oh yeah, the test rules on the blog could be a hoax, you never know. Anyone can be taken in occasionally. But even the author who posted on the blog admits it is questionable.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 14, 2012 7:16:39 GMT -5
Something about the sample map seems like some visual trends of mapping in the last twenty five years.
Back in the 80's, in high school, I recall many local D&D fans around me obsessing and copying pages like medieval monks.
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Post by grodog on Sept 14, 2012 20:32:04 GMT -5
Jon's skeptical about the Dalluhn ms., but so far he thinks that it's probably part of the chain of playtest mss. leading up to OD&D. We'll see, I suppose, as he continues to put forth his essays on it. I've gone back and forth on it thus far: some parts (like the sample level map) seem to me to be based on the OD&D published rules, while other parts (like a lot of the rules analysis) could definitely predate OD&D (or could be someone trying to clarify and to reorganize it better, too....).
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 15, 2012 9:04:46 GMT -5
I'll say again this book PLAYING AT THE WORLD looks very interesting and it would be nice to look at.
Just wanted reiterate that.
BTW, Does anyone recall the name of the fan-made module from last year or so that claimed to be fromt he early 1980's?
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Post by grodog on Sept 15, 2012 13:05:53 GMT -5
You thinking of this one, Gene?: The Black Monastery @ www.talesofthefroggod.com/black.htmlWRT PatW: have you been reading the preview on Amazon? It's like 100 pages or something huge.
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