Introducing the Moathouse

[Scott]

As far as I can remember, the Moathouse isn't mentioned at all in the background material, or in any part of the Hommlet portion of the adventure in a way that the players might hear about it. How have you introduced it to the party?

[GRWelsh]

As written, the background seems to be presented to get a party interested in exploring the Temple itself. So, I always thought it was assumed the player characters would start asking about the Temple, and from such inquiries, find out about the much closer outpost of the moathouse. Or, they may be curious about the bandits riding the roads near Hommlet again recently, and ask about where such bandits might be hiding out in the wilderness near the village.

I have always had the impression that the intent was for the players to discover the existence of the moathouse from their own initiative and/or questions, rather than the DM to just say something like, "bandits have been riding the roads near Hommlet again recently, and it is very likely they are using the moathouse as a base or outpost."

[Scott]

I agree that that was the intent. I just think it's odd that it's not really mentioned at all. I remember one NPC having a line in his description that states, 'does not trust the traders', or something like that. Just some blurb like that; if you talk to this NPC about the Temple, he will mention the nearby moathouse kinda thing.

[Egg of Coot]

I've introduced the Moathouse (and a number of other connected locales) through simple PC interactions with the locals. If the players ask about ruins, etc. the name and rough locations are provided. Most of the villagers will not have put two and two together as far as the Moathouse's history and the recent spate of banditry goes, and will simply say that it's probably an unhealthy place to go. It's up to the players to make the correct inquiries with the right people to glean the full picture. I've always believed that the players have to make an effort to drive the story forward. I'd be horribly disappointed if the players simply sat around waiting for a villager to walk up and say: "Hey, why dontcha go check out the old Moathouse. It used to be an outpost for the Temple, and seeing as old habits die hard, it's probably being used by the baddies as a toehold for reconquering the region." I think Gary and Frank left out any written references to the Moathouse simply because they expected DMs to do their own legwork on that account.

The Egg

[Scott]

I’ve been doing the legwork for decades now. It just strikes me as odd.There is a ton of superfluous info given for everybody living in Hommlet, but nothing about who knows anything about the Moathouse. This isn't a free-form role playing session where the PCs are going to blow into town looking for ruins. They're going to blow into town and go, "Hey where's this Temple of Elemental Evil that the DM just told us about in that long winded background spiel?"

[Egg of Coot]

I'll agree that it is odd. The most likely reason for the omission is that Gary's incomplete notes, etc. hadn't addressed the issue and Frank either didn't bother to add the requisite material or wasn't given the time to. I'm not familiar with the story of the module's development, but I get the feeling FM wasn't given much time or leeway within which to produce the completed project.

The Egg

[Falconer]

But Egg, we’re talking about T1, which as far as I know Frank Mentzer had nothing to do with.

[Scott]

That's correct. Frank was given the notes years after T1 was published. As is, it's totally Gary's style; he often assumed readers would know what to do in such cases. That said, it would have been useful info, especially for someone new to the game and setting. I remember being a young DM, around 13 or so, being a bit perplexed by the background vs. the module contents.

[Egg of Coot]

Jan 21, 2011 0:05:35 GMT -5 Falconer said:

But Egg, we’re talking about T1, which as far as I know Frank Mentzer had nothing to do with.

You're right, my mistake. I haven't got my copy of T1handy, so how many (and how extensive are the) references made to the Temple in the original module?

The Egg

[foster1941]

The structure of T1 is a little confusing - the intro talks all about the temple and investigating to see if it's returning, then drops the party off in a village a few miles away, seemingly expecting them to hang out and talk to the villagers and eventually (presumably) find out about the nearby ruined moathouse and go explore it. When we originally played through it that wasn't a big deal because we didn't think about things that much and just sort of took what was set in front of us - the book says you start in Hommlett and explore the moathouse, so that's what we did. But in retrospect it's a little weird. If I were to run this again I think I'd want to add a little more context to make it flow more naturally: before they come to the area they'll already know about Nulb and how dangerous it is and that Hommlett is also nearby the temple ruins and likely to be a safer place to establish a home base. Then, once they're in Hommlett and start talking to people they're discouraged from going immediately to the temple ruins and encouraged instead to stick around and help the villagers deal with the bandits who've been causing trouble in the area. That search leads to some red-herring encounters, before eventually they're able to trace the bandits back to their base in the old, ruined moathouse. That is, I suppose, how Gary actually expected things to play out, but it's not all that clear (especially to an 11 year old) when reading the thing.

[Scott]

Having spent a lot of time pondering this I assume Elmo suspects something is at the Moathouse. He approaches the party, and once he gets a feel for them, steers them there.
The other local NPCs probably have the same suspicions, and would try to lead the party there first, but the PCs would have to initiate the meetings and conversation.

[archma9e]

The text of the module indicates that Spugnoir is aware of the moathouse and plans to search it, because he's learned that a warlock was housed there

[geneweigel]

We've become so jaded that the obvious is right in front of our faces:

Each numbered building area has its general information first.
Immediately following this is material which you should not reveal
to the players. As a matter of course throughout this module, all
insertional material which is for your information is in bold face or
enclosed by parentheses. As you read aloud, skip those sections.
Of course, if you are so thoroughly familiar with the module that
you can simply glance at the number key and then put
2
everything in your own words, so much the better. You should be
conversant with the whole before beginning play, and your
players will reflect the degree of skill you have in presenting the
material herein dramatically, as if it were your own.
In fact, the whole is only general, and while some characteristics
of the non-player characters (hereafter referred to as NPCs) are
given, there is sufficient latitude for you to completely personalize
the module to fit your style of play and satisfy your players. Follow
the guidelines given, but round them out so as to make each
encounter unique. The persons met at the inn, along the road,
and so forth, are you; for the Dungeon Master is all-monsters,
NPCs, the gods, everything. Play it to the hilt. Do it with flair and wit.
Be fair both to the characters and to yourself. Be deceitful, clever,
and thoroughly dishonest when acting the part of a thief. Be
cunning but just when in the role of a warding ranger. Actually
think of it as if the part you are taking is that of a characteryou are
playing, and act accordingly, but temper actions with disinterest
in the eventual outcome and only from the viewpoint of that
particular role. Wearing two, three, or a half dozen or more
different hats is c’hallenging, but that is part of being an
outstanding DM.

The moathouse section is all not in bold only magic items, spells and the word "warren" for the ghouls. This is the opening to the section which I've colorized parts which Gary most likely is referring you to put into your own words (so you can get there):

This place was once the outpost of the Temple of Elemental Evil, its
watchtower and advance base for raids, looting, and destruction.
From this area, servants of the Temple were to bring the
Village of Hommlet and all the lands around it into subjection. The
subjugated folk were then to be used as slaves to construct yet
another fortress further west, as the evil power of the Temple
spread in ever-growing rings to encompass all of the land round
its base. In fact, this outpost was ignored in the destruction of the
Temple, for the army of good which came against the wicked
hordes was so strong as to be totally immune to any pinpricking
from the garrison of the moathouse. Only after the battle which
destroyed the main armies of the Temple of Elemental Evil had
ended was attention turned to this place. Then, a detachment of
horse and foot with a small siege train came to the marshlands to
lay the castle low. The common folk for miles came to help, and
the moathouse was surrounded, cut off, and battered into
extinction. The place is now shunned by the people of Hommlet,
who hate its former evil and the memory of the terror brought to
them by the black lord of the fortress, a vile cleric of damnation,
and his evil men and humanoid troops.
A scrub of thorns, thistles, weeds, and shrubs grows thickly along
the edge of the track which leads to the ruins, and even the track
is mostly overgrown and cluttered with fallen branches and trees.
Here and there it is washed out, in other places a mire. Evidently
some game still follow the pathway, however, for after a mile or so
faint pathways can be seen. Even considering this, going is slow,
and it takes over an hour to reach the place on horseback, two to
trudge along on foot, and considerable hacking and clearing is
necessary to make the way passable the first time, so double the
time is required. After two miles of distance, the land begins to sink
and become boggy, as the track turns more northerly, and tall
marsh plants grow thickly where cattails and tamaracks do not.
Off to the left can be seen the jagged silhouette of the
moathouse.
The track continues past the ruins for many miles-seven leagues,
in fact-until the temple area is reached. A side path, banked
high to cross over the wet land to either side, juts north to the
entrance of the ruined place. The track here is only about 15’ or so
wide, with crumbling enbankments making travel near the edge
dangerous. The bogs here stink, and the vegetation appears
dense and prolific, but somehow sickly and unhealthy, creepers
and vines throwing their strangling loops over the skeletons of
dead saplings and living bushes alike. The rushes and cattails
rustle and bend even when only a slight zephyr blows over the
marsh, and weird bird calls, croakings, and other unwholesome
sounds come faintly across the fen.

So apparently everyone knows the old moathouse is there and if you're asking around then everyone knows where it is.