Lords of Balance

[Falconer]

I mentioned in another thread that I don’t care for the Lords of Balance as presented in the later Gord novels.

Recall how in Dragon 71 (or World of Greyhawk 1983), in the write-ups on Quasi-deities, it emerges that Zagyg, Heward, Keoghtom, Murlynd, Celestian, and Mordenkainen are all related and/or tend to be found together? Most of these guys are listed among Lords of Balance, so it can be imagined that their loose association formed into a formal “Qabbala” (another name for the LoB in the novels) when the very serious threat of Tharizdun’s return solidified.

However, the novels present the Lords of Balance as having existed even before Gord’s birth. I don’t recall whether the Tharizdun threat was on the horizon back then. Maybe they caught wind of Nerull’s scheming and were working to thwart him without knowing the full extent of his ambition. But why would Balance be working so tirelessly to counter Evil? Another motivator was to protect Rexfelis’s grandson, Gord, due to the prophecies surrounding him, if I remember correctly.

The core members of the LoB actually seem to be Basiliv and Rexfelis, with the Druidic hierarchy as a core ally or third member (Hierophant of the Cabal? Cabal=Qabbala=LoB?). Which is interesting, if you think about it, because the main agents of the LoB are Gellor and Gord, who in the end become the new demiurge and catlord, respectively, and Curley Greenleaf, whose allegiance to the Druidic hierarchy is obvious.

I can see Mordenkainen and the rest of the Zagyg Clique eventually being convinced that they need to assist the LoB only when it looks like the world is going to end, but otherwise they all seem to be very independent-minded. Otherwise, I like the LoB as a more tight-knit and secretive group rather than an all-stars club.

Thoughts?

[Scott]

"Otherwise, I like the LoB as a more tight-knit and secretive group rather than an all-stars club."
I agree. I have often been critical of how post-Gygax Greyhawk is guilty of using older Greyhawk all-stars as a crutch to support lame or lazy writing, but I think Gary was guilty of this too in this instance.

[Scott]

I wouldn't mind using one character, but it went too far. Especially when you consider that LG Tenser is a LoB as well.
As an in-game plot/adventure initiator, I could see Mordenkainen as a LoB, but the rest is just too much.

[GRWelsh]

I've always struggled with the concept of Balance, in the sense of "serving Balance," Lords of Balance, serving neutrality, etc. To me, neutrality is best understood as selfishness, with good as kindness, and with evil being ill-intent and desire to harm -- often just for the sake of harming. So, a greedy character who is out for himself, but isn't cruel just for the sake of being cruel, is my base concept of neutrally aligned. But the idea of "serving Balance" implies some level of selflessness or devotion to a higher cause and perhaps even a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the cause (as per the Gord books).

Perhaps the best way to view Balance is as a "beyond good and evil" sort of ethos, maybe related to the integrity of the Prime Material Plane, the multiverse, nature, magic and reality itself. For examples, threats that could destroy Oerth, or the Prime Material Plane, or magic itself, or the fabric of reality, that sort of thing... And Tharizdun certainly falls in that category of threat. So, maybe an organization like the Lords of Balance could be seen as not merely for those who are True Neutral, but also for those able to see the value in Balance in the sense of "if we don't maintain this, everything could be destroyed." That would explain why people of varying alignments could be Lords of Balance.

I'm thinking also this ethos could have originated in ancient times when gods more actively interceded on Oerth and Inner Planes, and this could explain some of the restrictions Outer Planar beings have for entering other planes. Maybe a legendary "war of the gods and giants" with awesome cataclysms resulting from it happened, leading to greater gods pulling back from the Inner Planes so as not to destroy them utterly with their conflicts.

[geneweigel]

I've never used the Lords of Balance in any tabletop expression but I did use the Circle of Eight as an extension of the concept.

Maybe that its too vague for expression or its needs the physicality that it was denied. Special monsters and magic. Thats the only holding it back in my mind.

As an aside, most secretive organizations in my world are rotten bastards and as for the two neutrals "true neutral" and "neutral" I have druids and any organized neutral lean "neutral".

[Scott]

Part of the problem is that alignment is used to describe general behavior tendencies, and an almost elemental cosmic force. It always muddies alignment discussion. The Lords of Balance should be something like the lords of Law and Chaos from the Elric books.

[grodog]

Jan 20, 2017 13:23:58 GMT -5 Scott said:

Part of the problem is that alignment is used to describe general behavior tendencies, and an almost elemental cosmic force. It always muddies alignment discussion. The Lords of Balance should be something like the lords of Law and Chaos from the Elric books.

Agreed, and the Lords of Balance could have agents like Sepiriz, the Warrior in Jet and Gold, the Nihrain in general, et al. Making some of those agents a part of the Circle of Eight (or among their henchmen) seems quite natural.

When I redesigned my concepts of the paladin around the give alignments, using the article in Dragon #106 as some of the inspiration, I made all neutrally-aligned paladins Paramandrys, with the idea that they championed Neutrality in the same way that Paladins, Anti-Paladins, Fantras, and Arrikuhn champion the four polar alignments.

Allan.

[GT]

I made my own force of neutrality in Concordant Opposition...

KA-BALAHK (Neutrality, Fate, Integrity of Concordant Opposition)
Greater Deity
ARMOR: -10
MOVE: /15"
HIT POINTS: 600
NUMBER OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 10 - 100
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 120%
SIZE: L (50')
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
WORSHIPPERS’ ALIGNMENT: N/A
SYMBOL: Black circle with a smaller white circle in its center
PLANE: Concordant Opposition
CLERIC/DRUID: 30th lvl cleric/15th lvl Druid
FIGHTER: Nil
MAGIC-USER/ILLUSIONIST: 25th lvl in each
THIEF/ASSASSIN: Nil
MONK/BARD: Nil
PSIONIC ABILITY: I
Attack/Defense Modes: All/all
S: N/A I: 26? W: 26? D: N/A C: 25 CH: 25

Ka-Balahk is a primordial deity that exists upon the Plane of Concordant Opposition where it apparently observes all that transpires. It is believed that this deity dwells within the Spire of Balance rising from the center of the Plane. It does not leave this plane, although it is able to send servitors (apollyon and grigoroi, usually) elsewhere if it deems it necessary. The gatekeepers of this plane, in fact, directly serve this deity. Its sole purpose seems to be observing the multiverse, and serving as tribunal for and insuring the neutrality of its plane. The deities Boccob, Istus and Cyndor are said to commune with this being occasionally by telepathy, but it will not manifest for most other beings. Upon Oerth, only a handful of sages and savants are even aware of its existence. It is said that it can observe the multiverse of Oerth (including parallel worlds) and the Inner and Outer Planes from the beginning of time to the end. When the great powers of Good fought to contain Tharizdun, this entity did not participate, nor did it seem concerned about any ramifications if the Dark One had triumphed.
Ka-Balahk is able to understand the various paths of time and probability that extend from specific events and examines the consequences thereof, but will not act unless said events threaten Concordant Opposition.
Any creature or creatures that manage to battle past the Gatekeepers are subject to Ka-Balahk’s power of Opposition Equilibrium. For every foe present of demigod level or less, an opponent will come into being that is an equal counter to them. Thus, a 16 HD earth elemental would find itself facing a 16 HD air elemental, a fighter wielding a sword of sharpness might find themselves facing a troll with equal hit points, a neutral good monadic deva might find itself facing an arcanodaemon, etc. Needless to say, DM jurisdiction and careful planning would need to go into this situation. Defeated opponents disappear and will not assist other combatants, and triumphant invaders find themselves transported back to their plane of origin.
If forced to combat, this deity will fire a blast of concordant energy each round that does 10 – 100 points of damage (no saving throw) to any creature within a 20-foot radius of its impact. Ka-Balahk is able to throw 24 time stop spells each day, and it can teleport up to 12 opponents/round (no save) to any location within the Inner and Outer Planes or upon Oerth. A +5 or better weapon would be required to inflict any harm upon this being, and it regenerates 10 hit points each round after taking damage. It is unharmed by vacuum, fire/heat, cold, electricity, poison, acid/alkali, negative energy, or positive energy attacks. It moves by” flying”, but is able to teleport at will to virtually anywhere in the Prime Material, Inner and Outer Planes.
Ka-Balahk has the appearance of a vast black sphere, with what is apparently a white circular eye with a black pupil. A shimmering light green aura of flames surrounds its person, and it floats in the air. Even other greater deities experience a sense of awe when viewing this being. No clergy exists for this deity, and it grants no clerical powers to any professing to worship it. There is, however, a very small cabal of savants who wear this deity’s symbol as a medallion (“The Savants Who Seek In The Name Of Ka-Balahk”). They are neutral of bent, and seek lore of the multiverse. Their watchwords are “Let what will be, be”.

GW will probably know what inspired this "deity". ^__^

[Merkholz]

I guess that the LoB want the "natural" order of things to progress unaffected by other forces, especially good or evil. Sort of like the Prime directive in ST, to neither help or hinder the unfolding of events unless they are unnaturally induced. Balance on a small scale is concerned by their own small corner of the multiverse while the LoB takes a grander look at all Creation.

[GT]

To my way of thinking, the "Lords of Balance" play good and evil, law and chaos off of each other. Originally, I thought "uncaring" as in the epithet of Boccob... but that's not quite right. Even Boccob will defend himself; and my entity, Ka-Balahk, will too--as well as keeping other alignments from overtly affecting Concordant Opposition. Realistically, the LoB have their own vested interest in the Multiverse; not a 'static state' as such, but a 'correction' when any force starts to unbalance things...

[GT]

To put it another way; think "amoral" vs. "immoral", or from a stilted view, "Childlike" vs. "childish"... ^__^

[GT]

To backtrack a bit; Scott, you are absolutely correct--- Tenser had no place in the forces of Balance (familiarities aside... ) any more than Robilar would have. Basiliv, who shifted from Chaos to Neutrality at some point, would be a potent force, and the Circle of Eight, maybe... what do you think of the Cat Lord, Shadowlord and Keoghthom (shows up on the Demi-Plane of Shadow in the Gord novels)? Would they indulge in planar politics? The beings I use are grigori (neutral 'watchers' of events...) and apollyon (harbingers of death as the natural order); I have placed Gary's Circle of Eight on Oerth, but I really don't have PC's interact with them.

[Scott]

Basiliv seem like a good fit. Maybe not all of the Co8, but Mordenkainen for sure, and a few others.
My initial impression for Cat Lord and Shadowlord is no. Keoghthom, maybe, I would need a refresher.

I would love to indulge in planer politics, but I've never had a campaign progress that far. My cousin's 13th level magic-user is part of Tenser's network, but he hasn't played much since his daughter was born (sounds familiar?).

[GT]

"he hasn't played much since his daughter was born (sounds familiar?)."

Heh!! Woodstock the Bard is longest running and highest level PC in my world; we both have kids and we both play seldom (and have for a good decade or so now...) Yes; very familiar! ^__^