GT
Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 11:13:40 GMT -5
Sorry--I thought it came from his '96 or '97 chat hosted by "grafx"; it was actually on the WoGFC Q&A chat from '98 wherein Gary responds to a question about Thrommel's kidnapping:
Gary Gygax: "How about this: The Scarlet Brotherhood captures Thrommeland sells him to the Temple. Could be, eh?"
I did find an interesting quote about Iggwilv in grafx's chat:
JoeBloch: Would you classify her [Iggwilv] at the same level as personages such as Murlynd or Heward? pladoh: Iggwilv was still active and was more powerful than those na' ed (sic--meant "named").
These chats used to be archived online; I actually have printouts of both that I refer to from when they were originally on the web.
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Post by Scott on May 26, 2009 11:33:59 GMT -5
I've read that before, and it seems like some more off the cuff answering to me, which is why I never gave it any weight. as far as Iggwilv goes, Gary classified her as a demi-god with spell casting ability near 30th level, which put her closer to lesser god status in that regard.
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 11:38:54 GMT -5
Actually, I found Gary's answers mostly "spot on" in that particular q&a, such as who was in the Circle of Eight; the problem was people on the board (like Roger Moore) were trying to tell Gary why their answers were better! No wonder Gary became more flippant in later years!! ^__^
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Falconer
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Post by Falconer on May 26, 2009 11:39:40 GMT -5
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 11:43:10 GMT -5
I'd probably rank Iggwilv as a Demigod (as an incarnation of Louhi, et al) with exceptionally powerful magic ability--she was leery of what might occur if Iuz got "unwieldy", so they're probably close in power--she has wisdom and certain magic spells (some apparently gained from Tsojcanth's tomes...) to her advantage. Certainly near 30th level magic-use, though! ^__^
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 11:44:33 GMT -5
Can you find the "grafx" chat, Michael? I did a quick google search, but no luck. I know that it was still there about a year ago...
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 11:51:51 GMT -5
Heh! Here's one example of what I meant:
"It should be noted there is a distinction in the source of the information given as answers. Answers based on the non-TSR Gord the Rogue novels are not official, and some TSR-produced Greyhawk materials might not be used in future supplements (e.g., WG10 Child's Play). The "official" distinction is important since the campaign as published is unlikely to use unofficial materials, and might generate entirely different answers for some questions." Roger Moore
TheONLY "Official" answer IS the Gary answer, o "yet-another-former-employee" of TSR!
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Post by geneweigel on May 26, 2009 12:37:18 GMT -5
Thats the Roger Moore that I know. Anyway, regarding that Q&A with Tharizdun I had asked Gary about the avatar and he said there was no avatar in the original adventure. And I was like but...uh...but...uh...but...uh...huuuuhh??? I think now I know what he meant that in his own way he was just entertaining the kind of people that wouldn't know whats under their own sack "cause its naughty" if you know what i mean. That is he just said it a certain way to entertain completists. the original Tharizdun is as is. A god in a world of endless gods where it wouldn't be so strange as the novels progressed they deviated by making it less content filled for the world. So what could he say about it? Its like he had to say something and the extrapolation of the non-TSR novels while lightyears from "Moore-on" and still pure Greyhawk his road on that series didn't meet eye to eye with the original thing for the adventure which it would have if Lorraine didn't "win" (making us all lose). So the questions given to Gary depend greatly on who is asking. When I asked Gary about Trowbane he was a basic idea of a good god of the underworld "hammer of the dark dwellers" thats what he was to be. Now he told some guy what he wanted to hear that it was placename. Two separate answers for the same question. An answer for someone who made him laugh and saw the forest from the trees. And another for an article read by weird Greyhawk fans who don't understand Greyhawk is all about Gary. See? Thats what you have to factor in when "sussing out the dark secrets" as Gary would say.
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Post by Scott on May 26, 2009 12:43:47 GMT -5
Actually, I found Gary's answers mostly "spot on" in that particular q&a, such as who was in the Circle of Eight; the problem was people on the board (like Roger Moore) were trying to tell Gary why their answers were better! No wonder Gary became more flippant in later years!! ^__^ There's a big difference there. The C08 is the Co8. But the whole tone of the Iuz/Scarlet Brotherhood answer reads like he's making it up on the spot. I just can't see any reason why Iuz would need to outsource the work, or why the SB would do it for Iuz. It seems like another wrinkle for another wrinkle's sake, and some common sense stretching to make it work.
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Post by Scott on May 26, 2009 12:49:48 GMT -5
Moore is the guy that irks me the most. He was just so clueless on so many levels. He didn't really have any vision of his own, and he couldn't even get the Gygax stuff straight. He's worse the CS in my mind. It wasn't to my liking, but at least he had his own vision.
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Post by geneweigel on May 26, 2009 13:06:34 GMT -5
Heres some good quotes from Gary to me (DEC 2001) on his feelings about answering Greyhawk questions for others discussion of current Greyhawk:
Then the apology after I wrote back that I understood why he was so angry:
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Post by Scott on May 26, 2009 13:22:17 GMT -5
I understood where Gary was coming from, and I always felt a little guilty when I would ask him something, but he did his job so well. You couldn’t help but want to learn more. That and I couldn’t stand the thought of the numb nuts inheriting the setting and turning it into flavorless mush.
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 13:25:39 GMT -5
I still disagree on the grounds that in the "still-Gary" Greyhawk the Scarlet Brotherhood "appeared" at the same time as Thrommel's abduction. As to the Co8, the Diggby/Ziggby thing was quoted by both Rob and Gary---something that both misremembered? Or maybe an interchangeable name? I never asked, so I can't say... ^__^
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 13:26:18 GMT -5
Oh, and "coonshit"... that's definitely Gary!
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 13:31:45 GMT -5
There was a "Mythus Meeting" we had in the basement of some building (don't remember where...) and Gary, Frank, Dave N., Tony, my brother Mark, and I were all there... talk about frank discussions! But, outside of a few things my bro' tossed out, we knew we were there to discuss Mythus; so AD&D 1E was not (much) brought up--although TSR was! ^__^
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Post by Scott on May 26, 2009 13:35:36 GMT -5
Get out! That’s the same kind of reasoning that led some latter day Greyhawk writer to conclude that the Prince of Furyondy and the Provost of Veluna were two different people.
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 13:48:47 GMT -5
HAR!!! Well, I never subscribed to that one... so; am I a "conspiracy theorist"? ;D
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 13:50:57 GMT -5
Here's another bit for ya... Gary had allowed in the convention modules of the Slave Lords as "official" AD&D, said group implicitly sponsored by the Scarlet Brotherhood. Maybe he had something in mind there...
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Post by Scott on May 26, 2009 13:52:00 GMT -5
HAR!!! Well, I never subscribed to that one... so; am I a "conspiracy theorist"? ;D LOL, only if you had a PC wandering around Gregghawk, as opposed to the Greghawk parallel dimension.
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 26, 2009 13:56:51 GMT -5
Hey... you may have something there!! ;D What if there were dimensions of Greyhawk with very subtle variations of history, rather like the "silver age" DC comics... Hmmmmmm. (Hey, Rao was the big god of Krypton so where's the unbelievable "stretch"...?) ^__^
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