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Post by Scott on May 20, 2009 10:28:18 GMT -5
If you were going to advance the Greyhawk timeline forward, how would you resolve this issue? Thrommel has been released and Furyondy and Veluna have been united, or he is dead or still missing, keeping the status quo?
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Falconer
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Post by Falconer on May 20, 2009 11:26:34 GMT -5
Not sure what you’ve got in mind (i.e. WHY would you advance the timeline), but lacking any other info, I would say “Still missing,” in order to keep the scenario open for actual PCs to resolve at some point if desired. If you actually have a reason you want the scenario to have been resolved previous to the campaign, I would go with the results of a previous campaign there. Just to give it a neat legit story that makes the D & D experience seem that much more real.
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Post by Scott on May 20, 2009 12:33:26 GMT -5
I have thought about running a ToEE beat the clock time campaign, where the party has so much time to do their thing before Robilar shows up and does his. But in this case, I'm tossing around ideas to distance Greyhawk from WotC, for possible publication reasons. Advancing the timeline a bit and redrawing the political boundaries could do a lot for such an endeavor, but I didn’t want to just throw in changes willy-nilly when there are a number of outstanding issues that could be used. The Thrommel Furyondy/Veluna thing is one. The war brewing that is mentioned in the Isle of the Ape background is a possibility, as well as all the conflicts Gary mentioned in the Greyhawk articles in Dragon. I’m trying to imagine what Greyhawk would look like 10 years later, if it had been advanced by people who knew and cared about Greyhawk ala Gygax.
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GT
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Post by GT on May 20, 2009 17:13:31 GMT -5
I'd leave Thrommel lie until some PC's release him and go from there... ^__^
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Post by Falconer on May 20, 2009 20:38:28 GMT -5
True, Scott. If you are publishing a 1e WoG module, you can almost ASSUME that any group that might be running it has already played ToEE. Not necessarily the same characters or all the exact same players, but it’s fair to assume that the DM has run it at his table before, so it is in fact resolved one way or the other. In that case, the safest assumption would definitely be that it was resolved happily.
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Post by Scott on May 20, 2009 20:43:23 GMT -5
It does make sense that way. Robilar and Zuggtmoy have fled. The dungeons are still standing. The PCs had found Thrommel, but not figured it out. After Robilar's pillaging and Zuggtmoy fleeing, the PCs could have easily explored the dungeons, and figured out the Thrommel thing.
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Post by ghul on May 21, 2009 9:38:11 GMT -5
Whatever course you choose for Thrommel, as long as conflict and tension remains, there is always room for adventure, agendas, and plots within plots for the PCs to involve themselves in. I would be careful about the Robilar idea, particularly if the PCs are intent upon completing the adventure you present them. If they are outshone by a famous GH NPC, they might feel helpless as players, that they are unable to solve problems and complete quests before some super-hero sweeps in. The result could be an unsatisfactory player experience. Unless, of course, they get seriously side-tracked and do not take steps to complete the adventure you set forth; then, external influences might well change the course of things. Events should not stagnate, waiting for the players to galvanize them, in this latter case. My two coppers.
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Post by Falconer on May 21, 2009 10:20:27 GMT -5
There’s definitely a balance to be struck. Of course here we all know you don’t want NPCs stealing the show Elminster-style while the PCs watch. But there is something to be said for the awe one has when meeting someone famous and how that makes the world feel real and exciting. It’s like, if you go to Lothlórien, you meet Galadriel, and it’s awesome! It worked that way in the books, and it sure better work that way in a game.
In my campaign I’d have no qualms using Mordenkainen, Bigby, Robilar, Tenser, Erac’s Cousin, Riggby, Serten, and Yrag.
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Post by grodog on May 21, 2009 21:58:08 GMT -5
One of the things I like about having Robilar, in particular, involved in Tzuggtmoy's and Iuz's releases is that he _failed_ in both instances to kill the demon: the PCs can try to pick up the pieces of Robilar's failures, for example, which is another distinction from FR (where Elmister or some other Chosen of Mystra would have bound them both before morning tea and toast ): that GH NPCs are fallible.
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Post by Scott on May 21, 2009 22:00:59 GMT -5
Well, Robilar actually became Zuggtmoy's ally. And I think Hextor was the only one Robilar may have actually attacked.
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Post by GT on May 22, 2009 23:51:30 GMT -5
Yeppers; the other "demigods" began transforming back to deitific flesh as a chain reaction to Robilar going for Hextor--whom he attacked because he appeared to be the toughest foe! ^__^
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Post by Merkholz on May 25, 2009 1:41:20 GMT -5
The trouble with having Thrommel free and roaming about is that it might lead to a swift wedding with Jolene and that would make the two states combined for the forseeable future - a pretty big change to the central Flanaess. It is one thing meeting and helping a famous NPC, another to radically change the political (and geographical) map. I would seriously consider throwing in some wrench in the machine - Jolene has already married someone else, the Velunese thinks Thrommel is an imposter (such things happen), Belvor hides his beloved son away to keep him from harm etc.
M
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Post by Scott on May 25, 2009 8:46:36 GMT -5
How many wrenches can you throw? Wasn't that what the kidnapping was? The material in T1-4 implies that the marriage would proceed if the Prince was rescued. I think a radical change was the point.
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Post by GT on May 25, 2009 12:54:47 GMT -5
Yeah, as I see it Gary had all but cemented Veluna and Furyondy anyway so that wouldn't radically shift the balance. He did, however, make it extraordinarily likely that Thrommel would get staked by those who found him. Even so, that's nothing a resurrect couldn't fix once the trickery was revealed. And I do like Alan's comment about the fallibility of Greyhawk NPC's... I never really considered it that deeply, but pretty much all of them have had their "embarrassing moments" (as have my PC's!) ^__^
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Post by GT on May 25, 2009 13:33:26 GMT -5
SPOILERS for non DMs!!!!!!!! There are so many webs here... If you check out the Dragon articles on news from the Flanaess Gary did advance a few combat scenarios... the Rovers fought the forces of Iuz and reclaimed the Opicm River area while Iuz himself was distracted by an attempt to take Whysetil Lake. Iuz would certainly like to retake the territory he lost to the Horned Society, but he doesn't really dare start a "two-front" war. And what of the mysterious Scarlet Brotherhood who kidnapped Thrommel for Iuz in the first place, but have "theological tie" with the Horned Society? And, what of the Great Kingdom? Have you run your adventurers through Rob's modules of Zayene and released the true Ivid, who is less mad and perhaps less evil than the "clone on the throne"? What then of Nyrond and its allies who no longer have the same degree of worry from the GK. And what also of Lendore and the islands to the East? Len's new modules might reveal something going on there of import to the mainland. Or Frank's Aquaria campaign, should he choose to put out new material. What if forces from there journey back to the east coast of Oerik? There are many potential political upheavals afoot...
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Post by Scott on May 25, 2009 14:03:17 GMT -5
I don't have the Scarlet Brotherhood involved with the kidnapping at all.
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Post by GT on May 25, 2009 14:12:02 GMT -5
Gary actually said that they "did the deed" in his first on-line chat, but at the payment of others (he said: "Iuz. perhaps?")
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Post by Scott on May 25, 2009 14:35:24 GMT -5
Was that the same chat he said they did it for Nyrond?
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Post by GT on May 25, 2009 14:37:37 GMT -5
No, the only reference to that was with Paul Stormberg; and I still say he was being flippant on that one! ^__^
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Post by Merkholz on May 26, 2009 3:57:27 GMT -5
If Gary ever had pinned down the culprits behind the kidnapping it is not improbable he had only vague memories of it once he went on-line to answer endless minutiea questions from fans. The various contradictory answers he gave indicates that there was no One True Vision or at least that he had mostly forgotten and moved on.
IMO there is little reason for the Scarlet Brotherhood to accept a job on the behalf of Iuz if he was inclined to offer them. More likely the Horned Society was involved and Iuz could be in on it from the side.
M
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