General Necropolis Discussion

[Scott]

Has anyone run this adventure?
I've got the Mythus and D20 versions, but I haven'y had the opportunity to run it yet.
Scott

[foster1941]

I played in it in 1988 with Gygax as DM (as I'm sure all of you have heard many many times before) and also ran it for my Mythus group in 1993. It's one of my all-time favorite modules. I think B2: The Keep on the Borderlands is still my #1 favorite because it's such a perfect instructional tool for new DMs and new players alike, but as far as actual adventure-content goes I think this is EGG's crowning achievement to date (though both Castle Zagyg and Hall of Many Panes look fit to give it some serious competition).

When I played in it in '88 it was at a con so we cut right to the chase -- EGG showed us the map of Aartuat, told us that it was "similar to Hommlet" and gave us an opportunity to buy statuettes from the dealer there, showed us the map of the Temple of Osiris and told us that was the 'action-oriented' portion of the adventure (he actually gave us a choice if we wanted to play it or the tomb; we unanimously chose the tomb), and then it was straight to the tomb entrance. The first night there were only 4 of us, me (who was 13 years old at the time) and 3 other guys about my same age, none of whom I'd met before (my friend who I'd gone to the con with got stuck playing some other adventure with another DM and was green with envy when he saw me sitting at the table with EGG). We each had high level characters generated on the spot (I was a 20th level thief). We spent all of that first session wandering around the outer tomb, and managed to trip every single trap there -- only some quick thinking and a wish or two saved our hides. We finally found the true tomb entrance (and all felt like idiots that we'd missed it before) and retired for the evening. When we continued the next afternoon it was with a much larger player group, including my friend and a bunch of other guys, for a total of about a dozen players (most of these guys were older, and had characters brought in from their home-campaigns). We explored several rooms, made quick work of the iron skeletons (who were tough -- AC 0 and 80 hp each) and the lightning-fast mummy (who lasted but a single round), didn't get caught in any of the really outrageous death-traps, and survived intact (although one player had gotten hit by that nasty 'chain of curses' and as we wrapped up EGG said point-blank "if we'd continued, you would've died"). We never made it to the inner tomb to face Rahotep, so I don't know what he would've looked like with AD&D stats, or how EGG would've handled the fact that we didn't have the artifact sections that are located outside of the tomb (he probably didn't bother himself about it, figuring (correctly) that there was no way we'd make it all the way to the inner tomb in one weekend of play).

When I ran it myself it was after about a year of previous Mythus play (we started playing pretty much the day the core rulebook was released in summer 92), and I used the whole package. Much time was spent in the village of Aartuat roleplaying with the assorted unsavory folks there, the devilcroc was met and slain, and the bandits along the road taken out with little difficulty. Prior to running this module my Mythus campaign had been very freeform, very plot- and rp-oriented, and it took the players (especially those who were 'newbies' and didn't have early D&D experiences to fall back on) to adjust -- I remember one of the players having a eureka moment and declaring "this is like a game!" which still makes me smile in retrospect. Things went south at the Temple of Osiris when the party refused to go inside and tried to sneak around it, which (per the module) led the inhabitants to attack them, which resulted in a huge fight, a near TPK, and some pissed off players. I'm no longer sure exactly how I resolved that situation but the end result is that we never really played that portion of the module (with the Underworld expedition and all that). We were playing in the summer of 93 and most of us (including me) had to go off to start college that fall, so time was short and I skipped ahead to the tomb, deciding to run the entire thing in one all-night marathon 'campaign finale' session. My friend who'd played in the adventure with me in 88 was part of the party so I allowed his character to have "oracular dreams" (meaning, essentially, his character could 'remember' anything he as a player remembered). Things started out pretty well, they found the entrance pretty easily, the fight with the iron skeletons took forever using Mythus' detailed combat system (something like 4 hours) but nobody died, they made it through several more rooms but demurred from actually going deeper towards the inner tomb because my friend remembered that nasty 'chain of curses' and didn't want to get hit by it so they dilly-dallied around the outer portion of the tomb and eventually got themselves hopelessly lost in that series of mirror image illusion rooms (compunded further by the fact that we were all pretty tired and drained by that point). I don't remember the exact details, I think I may have left them there when I ended the session (and, by extension, the entire campaign). Or I might have relented and allowed them to return to the surface. I'd have to check with one of the players (though I doubt any of them remember either).

Anyway, that's my two experiences with Necropolis, from either side of the screen. Neither time included the full Temple of Osiris adventure, and neither time involved an actual climactic battle with Rahotep himself. But both were a whole lotta fun, easily among the highlights of my entire 'roleplaying career.'

[Scott]

Good post foster.
I plan on running Necropolis one of these days. Maybe more than once. In a Mythus campaign, and in an AD&D campaign.
I haven't run a Mythus game yet, and most of my AD&D groups get overconfident and killed around 8th level.
Scott

[Scott]

Foster, have you seen the Necromancer D20 version?
It's 10th to 18th level.
You started as a 20th level thief. Do you think that was due to the small party size, or was the material that tough?
Scott

[foster1941]

Thinking back, I may have only been an 18th level thief (big difference, eh?). We were given instructions to create high level characters and otherwise given pretty tremendous lattitude (we were allowed to bring along any non-artifact magic items we wanted, for instance). More than balancing our small party size, I think allowing us to create such powerful characters was a bit of boastful reverse-psychological intimidation by Gary, who taunted us repeatedly that all the stats and gear in the world wouldn't help if we didn't know how to use them right (which was almost true -- Wishes did save us from our own mistakes once or twice -- but then again I suppose knowing how and when to properly use a Wish actually is part of effective high-level play). Had the module seen actual publication for AD&D I don't know what the recommended levels would've been, but my guess is probably somewhere around 14th-18th level (i.e. in the same league as Isle of the Ape). 10th level definitely seems too low, at least for the final tomb. (Although, in the big party on the 2nd day ISTR some characters that weren't as high level -- around 12th level maybe?).

[dcas]

foster1941 said:

Thinking back, I may have only been an 18th level thief (big difference, eh?). We were given instructions to create high level characters and otherwise given pretty tremendous lattitude (we were allowed to bring along any non-artifact magic items we wanted, for instance). More than balancing our small party size, I think allowing us to create such powerful characters was a bit of boastful reverse-psychological intimidation by Gary, who taunted us repeatedly that all the stats and gear in the world wouldn't help if we didn't know how to use them right (which was almost true -- Wishes did save us from our own mistakes once or twice -- but then again I suppose knowing how and when to properly use a Wish actually is part of effective high-level play). Had the module seen actual publication for AD&D I don't know what the recommended levels would've been, but my guess is probably somewhere around 14th-18th level (i.e. in the same league as Isle of the Ape). 10th level definitely seems too low, at least for the final tomb. (Although, in the big party on the 2nd day ISTR some characters that weren't as high level -- around 12th level maybe?).

Well of course 10th-18th are the recommended levels for the d20 version -- I think 10th-level d20 characters are more powerful than their AD&D counterparts, and will also 'level up' more quickly.

[GT]

I've only run it in MYTHUS... what a module!!

[Falconer]

Did NG convert their d20 version entirely from the Mythus version or did they have any of Gary's notes for the AD&D version? Regards.

[Scott]

They didn't have his notes, but they did consult him directly while doing the conversion.
Scott

[dcas]

Scott said:

They didn't have his notes, but they did consult him directly while doing the conversion.

Yep. The book looks great, and there are only a couple of caveats. One is that some of the stat-blocks are ridiculous -- I think there's one that's over a page long. The other is that there are some situations in which saving throws are allowed when they shouldn't be (I'll post one here if no one minds the spoiler). But these are easy to overcome if one is converting the module to AD&D.