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Post by geneweigel on Dec 7, 2005 12:15:37 GMT -5
Well,the titles have to match the "Codex of Erde" and "Castles and Crusades Society" universe's honorific consistency, I suppose. I'm sure if Gygax had his own boat to command things would be different but he's got the same status that he had with that lame WORLD OF GREYHAWK FAN CLUB website of the 90's as some kind "honorary" puppet postion where nothing was valid Greyhawk. It was just there. One of the major problems with Greyhawk fandom from my view is Gygax's various forms of puppet postions where you can't tell if "its live or if its Memorex". Then a decade later you've sifted enough through to figure it out. ( Then the turd-sniffers still say they don't mind since Sargent is better, even though he had no ideas of his own, because he at least was there for them. -SNIFF- -SNIFF- I love you, Carl! ) When I said I wanted a Castle Greyhawk to see the light, I never conceived that the Yggsburgh town would be delivered "bound and gagged" like this. I thought it was going to be straight talk from the man. (Thats when I still called called Gary by the title "The Man" mind you) Otherwise, I would have never... (let me reiterate)... NEVER suggested making a town setting first to Gary when he said he was going to do an side dimension ala "Isle of the Ape" first. ( CHECK OUT THE DF POST WHERE ALL THAT FELL INTO PLACE.) Believe me, I'll never make a suggestion (or any form of communication) to Gary again for better or worse if thats any consolation!
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Post by Scott on Dec 7, 2005 12:57:33 GMT -5
You should post this to the "Outs Inn" forum on the TLG boards -- also make EGG aware of it. As far as Easmoor is concerned, one could replace "Count" with "Earl" or "Viscount." And I don't think one should get worked up over the spelling of "Marquis/Marquess." "Marquis" is still sometimes used to the best of my knowledge, and "Marquess" is derived from it at any rate. If you really wanted to kick it old-school, you would use "Margrave." I used Earl because it is the English equivalent of Count; a female earl is a countess. Viscount is one step down on the order of precedence. I'm not really worked up, as I said, just nitpicking. Marquis is still used, it's just not the proper English form, and margrave would be the German form. In order the English form would be: Duke/Duchess Marquess/Marchioness Earl/Countess Viscount/Viscountess Baron/Baroness Next would come baronets than knights, but neither are peers. A baronet is just a form of knight; it is a hereditary title, where a standard knighthood dies with the individual.
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Post by dcas on Dec 7, 2005 13:35:07 GMT -5
Hmmm, maybe my slightly facetious tone didn't come out well over the IntarWeb. Maybe I should use more smilies, like Gene. Good info. However, Margrave would have been used in England (if there were such a title, it seems to have been an innovation) prior to the Norman conquest. Also I think "of" would be used in the event that a title refers to a place name rather than a surname. Marquis, Marquess, and Margrave were originally the titles of nobles whose territories were remote, or on the borders of the realm. Not sure about the origins of Margrave, but it did become the German equivalent of a Marquis/Marquess. The only time 'of' would be used for a baron would be if a territorial addition were made, like Baron Holland of Foxley. The same holds true for Viscounts. Barons and Viscounts could be either territorial or the surname. Baron Redfort for example has an equal chance of being from Redfort, or of having the surname Redfort. If Redfort is the surname, the 'of Foxley' could be added. Earls are usually territorial, but can use a surname, the 'of' would usually not be used for surnames. In the case of Earl of Easmooor, Easmoor would be the place, but Earl Easmoor would mean Easmoor was the family name. A marquess almost always uses 'of' and it is almost never a surname. Dukes always use of, and never uses surnames except in the few cases where the place and the surname are the same.
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Post by Scott on Dec 7, 2005 13:51:07 GMT -5
In my current home campaign, which is a mix of Greyhawk, Aerth, and homebrew, I'll proably keep Count and Marquis, but change them thus: the Count of Easmoor will become the Count de L'estammare and the Marquis of Talworth will become Marquis de Talworth, or maybe Marquis Duquesne. Yggsburgh (I haven't decided on a homebrew name for the town yet) was founded as an Albish (English) trading post. The settlement was seized by the Francians (French) when the whole area was lost during one of the early Colonial Wars. By the end of the wars Yggsburgh was recaptured by the Albish. A series of Old World wars, and the sudden domination of the Lantlian (Atlantic) Ocean by the Atlantians meant that the Old World powers were helpless when the colonies declared independence. The original Baron, Count and Marquis were Francian nobles, but when the colonies gained their independance they became palatine rulers. At this point the history from Yggsburgh begins.
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Post by Scott on Dec 7, 2005 14:15:03 GMT -5
Hmmm, maybe my slightly facetious tone didn't come out well over the IntarWeb. Maybe I should use more smilies, like Gene. Good info. However, Margrave would have been used in England (if there were such a title, it seems to have been an innovation) prior to the Norman conquest. Also I think "of" would be used in the event that a title refers to a place name rather than a surname. Marquis, Marquess, and Margrave were generally the titles of nobles whose territories were remote, or on the borders of the realm. Not sure about the origins of Margrave, but it did become the German equivalent of a Marquis/Marquess. The only time 'of' would be used for a baron would be if a territorial addition were made, like Baron Holland of Foxley. The same holds true for Viscounts. Barons and Viscounts could be either territorial or the surname. Baron Redfort for example has an equal chance of being from Redfort, or of having the surname Redfort. If Redfort is the surname, the 'of Foxley' could be added. Earls are usually territorial, but can use a surname, the 'of' would usually not be used for surnames. In the case of Earl of Easmooor, Easmoor would be the place, but Earl Easmoor would mean Easmoor was the family name. A marquess almost always uses 'of' and it is almost never a surname. Dukes always use of, and never use surnames except in the few cases where the place and the surname are the same.
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Dec 7, 2005 14:18:35 GMT -5
Did anybody notice how well Yggsburgh could fit at the juncture of the Ery and Neen Rivers on the old Greyhawk map; how the Urt and Nemo rather correspond to the Ery and Selintan; and how Bigfish Lake, situated on the Eel rather corresponds to the small lake on the Neen?? Not to mention Menhir Hills = Cairn Hills. This makes both Yggsburgh and Garham easy to incorporate, although the location of "The Castle" would need a bit of "moving". Just askin'... ^__^
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Post by Scott on Dec 7, 2005 14:28:36 GMT -5
Yeah, the direction of the castle is correct, but the distance would need to be about twice as far as it is now, with Dunfalcon located close by.
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 7, 2005 15:46:08 GMT -5
Did anybody notice how well Yggsburgh could fit at the juncture of the Ery and Neen Rivers on the old Greyhawk map; how the Urt and Nemo rather correspond to the Ery and Selintan; and how Bigfish Lake, situated on the Eel rather corresponds to the small lake on the Neen?? Not to mention Menhir Hills = Cairn Hills. This makes both Yggsburgh and Garham easy to incorporate, although the location of "The Castle" would need a bit of "moving". Just askin'... ^__^ Well, with all the variance as to where Robilar's joint was it seems the World of Garyhawk has elastic temporo-spatial discombobulation in every version throwing all the cartographers who think in "flat space time" to be repeatedly "folding space" not unlike a Dune spacing guild navigator. What were we talking about? Or where?
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Post by dcas on Dec 7, 2005 17:27:53 GMT -5
Also: Congrats DCAS on working on part of the setting! I eagerly await the results! Thank you, sir! Of course the "results" probably won't arrive for about a year.
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Post by Scott on Jan 7, 2006 19:05:51 GMT -5
Is the Lord Mayor/Druid Lochinvar Beachwood detailed in Yggsburgh? I see references to him being detailed somewhere else in the book, but I can't find the stats.
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Post by dcas on Jan 7, 2006 21:07:46 GMT -5
Is the Lord Mayor/Druid Lochinvar Beachwood detailed in Yggsburgh? I see references to him being detailed somewhere else in the book, but I can't find the stats. He was omitted by mistake. He should have been in the "Orders of Battle" appendix. Then again, I don't know how many PCs are going to be interacting with His Lordship to such an extent that he needs to be statted out.
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Post by Scott on Jan 7, 2006 21:33:10 GMT -5
I wanted to know hit level to see where he fits in the druid hierarchy.
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Post by dcas on Jan 10, 2006 9:10:12 GMT -5
Hmmm, well, I guess you would have to ask Gary about that. If I had to guess, I would make him a Druid (12th level). I don't see him being an Initiate of any kind, but if he were higher level I can't see how he would have the time or inclination to be the Mayor of Yggsburgh!
When Gary ran Yggsburgh as a Lejendary Adventure setting, he converted Beechwood to an Elementalist (Geourge). One would think that a character like that wouldn't fit into the druid hierarchy at all.
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Post by Scott on Jan 10, 2006 14:03:13 GMT -5
12th was where I placed him. Just wondering what the official line was.
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Post by dcas on Jan 30, 2006 16:30:52 GMT -5
12th was where I placed him. Just wondering what the official line was. Our guess was right, this is a missive from EGG posted on TLG's "The Outs Inn" forum:
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Post by grodog on Jul 2, 2006 22:01:08 GMT -5
I finally picked this up via the TLG $10 sale, and will hopefully have a chance to read it soon-ish.
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 5, 2008 15:58:35 GMT -5
Did Gary ever say there was any connection between Yggsburgh and Pittsburgh? They both are at the point of three rivers, and both end with the untypical 'h'...
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Post by Scott on Oct 5, 2008 16:00:21 GMT -5
It was brought up a few times. 'No connection' was the reply.
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 5, 2008 18:48:39 GMT -5
That's not the answer I wanted! Oh well... Have you made a map yet showing how Yggsburgh, Greyhawk, and the new lands west of the Cairn Hills look in relation to each other?
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Post by amalric on Nov 6, 2008 17:28:40 GMT -5
Better late than never... I just picked this up this week, from a supplier here in the UK wo are linked to TLG (who never replied to my emails). On the other hand, I knew nothing about it until I came here! Have to say from my brief glimpse of it that I like it a lot ~ it does exactly what it says on the tin, as we say over here.
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