Fighting With Two Weapons

[Scott]

This is an idea I’ve been working on for expanding the two-weapon fighting rules. It's based on the 3E system.
The standard penalties applied for fighting with two weapons would result in a -4 penalty to hit with the primary hand, and a -8 penalty to hit with the off-hand. This assumes that the primary weapon can be wielded in one hand and the off-hand weapon is a smaller, lighter weapon. Some common sense, based on the size of the character, needs to be applied here; a short sword would qualify as a small weapon for a human, but not for a halfling. If the off-hand weapon is also a standard size weapon (a human with two long swords) then both penalties will be increased by two. If the character has a Dexterity score of 16, the off hand penalty will be decreased by two. For each point of Dexterity above 16, both penalties will be decreased by one. If a character is ambidextrous, the off-hand penalty is reduced by two. A character must have a Dexterity score of at least 6 to fight with two weapons. All drow are considered ambidextrous.
Comments?
Scott

[Drexlorn]

No, I would not do that because I find the way 3E deal with that too limiting.

The two-weapon fighting rule in page 70 of the DMG is working nice for me.

But instead of only allowing dagger and hand axe, any weapon of a similar weight could be used.

[Scott]

I've borrowed this from Mythus. It's how I'll be determining handedness for NPCs for now on. I'll give PCs a base 5% chance to be ambidextrous, and let them choose their handedness.

[/b][/center][/tr] [tr][td]d%[/td][td]Result[/td][/tr] [tr][td]01 - 75-----[/td][td]Right-handed[/td][/tr][tr][td]76 - 95[/td][td]Left-handed[/td][/tr][tr][td]96 - 00[/td][td]Ambidextrous[/td][/tr][/table]

[Lord Cias]

So a character with a dexterity of 18, using a longsword and a dagger, would be at a -2/-4 penalty "to hit" assuming that he is not ambidextrious.

I think it would be better if the penalty was -3/-6 for a dexterity of 15 or less, and then reduce the penalty for both hands by 1 for each point of dexterity reaction adjustment, so that with an 18 dexterity the penalty would be 0/-3. Ambidexterity would reduce the penalty for the off-hand by 3, so that an ambidextrious character with a dexterity of 15 would be at a -3/-3, and 0/0 with an 18 dexterity.

Personally I still prefer the offical method. I think that dexterity should determine ambidexterity. But your method isn't bad.

[Scott]

I'm still working on this. I think there should always be some penalty/disadvantage/restriction for choosing to fight with two weapons since you just cant focus as well regardless. An ambidextrous character with an 18 Dex should have a -1/-1 penalty. I'll need to recalculate the adjustments out from there.
Scott

[Scott]

This would be the adjusted chart:
Medium Weapon & Medium Weapon: -6/-10
Medium weapon & Small Weapon: -4/-8
Dex 16: -1 to both penalties
Dex 17: -2 to both penalties
Dex 18: -3 to both penalties
Ambidextrous: -2 to off-hand weapon penalty

Scott

[JRMapes]

Man Scott those are some mean numbers.

You'd have to have a 21 dex and ambidexterity to break even. Thats near God-like.

I think i would have to go with Cias on this. His break down at least gives the characters a slim chance of fighting with two weapons without being penelized into it being not worth the effort. That is, speaking strictly from the numbers. Character concept, damn the penalities, is a different matter.

Breaking away from fantasy for moment, fighting with two weapons isnt that difficult. That is one offensive with one defensive. But. doing it skillfully and deadly is difficult but not impossible. That is both weapons being equally used offensively and defensively.

Not to muddy your work onthe rules, but when talking about taking size into consideration, would one take Strength into consideration as well and not jsut in the "to hit"? Two handed combat is as much STR as it is Dex? A man with max STR and DEX should be able to handle two identical standrd or smaller sized weapons witout much if any penality.

just some thoughts.

Jerry
#nosmileys#nosmileys

[Scott]

Hmmm, I might have calculated wrong. Those aren'tthe results I was thinking. Let me try that again.
Scott

[Scott]

Ok, here's a clerarer version. The first column is Dex score, the second is the penalties for main hand/off-hand.
6 - 15: -4/-6
16: -3/-5
17: -2/-4
18: -1/-3

This assumes that the off-hand weapon is a smaller weapon. If both weapons are medium, then both penalties are increased by 2. If the character is ambidextrous, the off-hand penalty is decreased by 2.
Scott

[JRMapes]

Yup... I could go with that....

I'd only grunt a little , but thats my nature ;D


Jerry

[DragonFire]

We use the rules from Dragon issue #68. Basically, the primary weapon must not exceed 4’ long or 100gp in weight and useable in a space of 4' or less for characters 5’-7’ tall. Charcaters under 5' have more restricted weapon coices. Secondary weapons are limited to one-half of the above specs. A shield and dagger may be used in the secondary hand together, but the character must state which they are using. When using the dagger to attack the character gains no AC bonus for the shield. Two-handed fighting doubles the number of attacks per round.

Normal two-handed fighting “to hit” modifiers:

Character’s Dexterity Primary Hand Secondary Hand
3 -5 -7
4 -4 -6
5 -3 -5
6-15 -2 -4
16 -1 -3
17 0 -2
18-20 0 -1
21+ 0 0

Note: Fighters attacking creatures with less than one hit die still only gain one extra attack per round (instead of one per level) when fighting 2-handed.

There are some more detailed restrictions as to which weapons are useable, but this gives a good general break-down as to the DEX penalties. Also, characters with a 17+ DEX could be considered ambidextrous.

Edit note: You'll need to come up with a different format for this post that doesn't cuase the need to scroll.
Scott