Falrinth's Illusion

[Scott]

When the party first enters the secret area where Falrinth dwells, they are greeted by a programmed illusion of a basilisk. I've always doubted the effectiveness of this encounter. It is assumed that the PCs involved started their adventuring careers with T1, and then moved on to the Temple. At this point, this should be the first encounter with a basilisk. Considering that, how likely is it that the PCs are going to recognize the basilisk for what it is, and even if they do assume it is a basilisk, are they going to have enough understanding of the monster's attack for the illusion to effectively petrify them?
I'll probably rework this encounter the next time I run the ToEE.
Scott

[Falrinth and Smigmal]

Doomsday Disciples,

Get ready, I'm gonna throw some random stuff at you:

I think that Falrinth is one of the most important, and interesting, characters in the ToEE saga. I know that there is a debate over who Fal worships (the whole "change Lolth to Tzugg" thing), and thus questions about his ultimate motives. One thing we know: he has the Golden Orb. This is the item that is the key to the release of Tzugg and the recovery of the Temple. I assume that Fal has not extensively examined the Orb, or even looked at it. I think he knows that it is very important, dangerous and powerful.

How have you all played him? I agree that the basalisk illusion is a little over the top, and I plan to rework the entire encounter extensively (I may connect the "escape passage" to the underground caverns containing the forgotten EEG temple and the drow who have been seeking the temple after the infamous "sharp check". This makes Fal 1) in the know about the EEG temple, or at least aware that there is something down there that is powerful and bad, 2) inpossesion of the Orb and planning what to do with it 3) courted by Lolth, minions of Tzugg and Iuz [and perhaps others...Co8/Mordie?!?]; he will be the keystone to the whole she-bang, or maybe not...

Also, I don't like the idea of Smigmal as a half-orc, I am going to make her a half-elf, just personal preference.

I have Falrinth coming into possesion of the Orb by slaying (of course) the former owner, a lackluster/alcoholic mage in Narwell. Falrinth was "hired" by the Temple lords to find the Orb. Falrinth has just returned to the Temple (IMC early 579CY), and has yet to decide how to use the Orb. Remember he has BIG plans and would sell his mother to get more power (I think he did...) He is playing a very dangerous game.

He does not trust Smigmal as far as he can throw her, although he appreciates her ability as a killer and a (cue cheezy soft-core music) lover...

most sincerely,

Fairylover








Fairylover

[Scott]

I’ve played him as a follower of Zuggtmoy, but like many CE types, his loyalties aren’t to be completely trusted. I still think the Lolth connection is best left out, but I do like the idea of him having some knowledge of the EEG followers, and possibly a secret member of that faction.
Scott

[GT]

Well, Scott--the Lloth connection is--shall we say--"clunky", but I still used Frank's attempt to reconciliate the matter with Lareth ("split loyalties"), just because I didn't know the particulars on Zuggtmoy when I first played T1, and rather than say "OK, forget that ever happened", I used the divided allegiance stance. Hey, they're Chaotic Evil, right? I did tie in the EEG thing for the end though--not that any of my PC's really made it that far... ^__^

[dzubak]

Scott, I share your thoughts regarding the illusion. In addition, to the characters not knowing the abilities of the basilisk, can an illusion actually petrify you?

My dwarf fighter was unlucky enough to fail his save. The DM'd ruled petrification, we all argured for a bit and it was overturned. I cannot remember what happened instead of being turned to stone, though I do remember that we nailed Falrinth as he was attempting to escape.

-d

[dcas]

Yes, I personally don't see how an illusion can duplicate the powers of the creature. It's easy to make an illusion of fire (dragon breath), but how does one make an illusion of a petrifying gaze? It doesn't look like anything, does it? At worst I think a character who had previously seen a basilisk might think that he had been petrified, and could be 'restored' by anything he thinks is a stone to flesh spell.

[Scott]

If the character had been petrified in the past by a basilisk (and could relive the experience), I could see it working, since many illusions (those that are also phantasms) affect the brain, as well as the eyes, but otherwise, I don't see it having the desired effect.
Scott

[dcas]

Scott said:

If the character had been petrified in the past by a basilisk (and could relive the experience), I could see it working, since many illusions (those that are also phantasms) affect the brain, as well as the eyes, but otherwise, I don't see it having the desired effect.

You have a point about phantasms. But still, would he actually be petrified, or only think he was petrified? I tend to think the latter. Even so, maybe he could still be slain if he failed a system shock roll.

[Scott]

The character would just think he was petrified, but I'd still require the system shock.
Scott

[GT]

Time to chime in on this... In a world where basilisks exist, it's fair to assume that PC's have at least heard of the eight-legged lizards with lambent green eyes that petrify their victims. I knew what a piranha was, for example, long before I ever saw a real one in an aquarium. And if even one party member knew, they would probably shout out something like: "Aieee! A basilisk!!" or "Aieee!! A Basi--..." ^__^ The magic's effect on the brain via the optic nerve would induce a catalepsy in those who believed and failed their save, tumbling rigid to the ground. True, their bodies would not truly be turned to stone, but those around would probably not immediately notice this fact as it became their turn to face or avoid the illusionary critter. And if they don't know what a basilisk is going in and/or figure out it's an illusion, imagine the DM's glee when they face a real one in the Earth Node! HEH!!!!

[Scott]

Even in the age of color photography, video, and previous exposure to piranhas, when I see one, I think, "that might be a piranha".
Now imagine a group of young, and inexperienced adventurers from the Wild Coast. Their careers started a few months ago. All of their experience, up to this point, has been the Moathouse and the Temple. The party has no experience with basilisks, or even petrification. Suddenly they walk around a corner, and they see...
a big lizard. Before the party even has a chance to count the lizard's legs, flames spring up from an unknown source, and start spreading in multiple directions. Now it's possible that the party may have heard of basilisks. It's just as likely that they have heard false stories of basilisks. Considering the party's experience, and the conditions of the encounter, even if members of the party have heard of basilisks, I think it's very likely they wouldn't recognize one for what it was. Next time around, I'll make it a real basilisk, or change the illusion.
Scott

[GT]

You could always leave a book called "A Bestiary of the Flanaess" in an obvious spot in a preceeding room that was open to a page titled "Basilisk", which along with information concerning the critter featured an accurate drawing/woodcut print of said monstrosity...

[dcas]

Scott said:

The character would just think he was petrified, but I'd still require the system shock.

Part of the illusion, too, might be to make other characters think that a 'petrified' character really was petrified.

[Merkholz]

After reading R1-4, or I12 for some, I believe that the illusion effect is part of Mentzer's treatment. I don't know if anyone agrees on this or not. Anyway, the important placement of the ord should be Gary's IMO.

M

[godentag from DF]

merkholtz,

I'm really curious why you think the illusion is a Mentzer insertion...

I asked a question on DF awhile back before I'd registered there, asking about the likelihood of Falrinth as EGG's original BBG (due to him having the orb, a little "branched staff" reference regarding the Leucrotta on the third level and some other stuff I was looking into).

I know it's hard at times to parse the Gygax notes from the Mentzer product, but I always felt that Falrinth was a Gygaxian character more suited to lording it over the third level with his quasit familiar and doing necromantic research in that huge lab, than to hiding in that secret suite (which itself looks tacked-on to the map...). He was just too prevalent in the random encounter tables, it seemed to me. FWIW, I also thought that Smigmal shouldn't have been a half-orc but was herself better suited to being an evil half-elf F/MU/T...or even a drow (perhaps in the early notes, where Lolth was the 'powerful demon' there).

Anyway, I was rather convinced that the basilisk "scene" didn't fit quite right (nor does the "scene" with the crone-Zuggtmoy on her throne)....it's just too far off from the climactic BBG descriptions wrote into G3/D3, but I couldn't put my finger on what exactly made me think so. I don't have any of Mentzer's stuff at all (not even his edits of BECM) so I was just going on a hunch...but I ended up dropping the basilisk from an IMC revision I did of the temple as being too "neato".

I'm curious about what from R1-4 led you to think it was a "mentzer-ism"...the writing style, the picture of events, or some common thematic elements?

[Scott]

It's impossible to say with any certainty that the entire Orb concept wasn't Mentzer's, which I believe there's a good chance it is. I know for sure that the Nodes were all Mentzer. The Orb is tied very closely to the nodes, and without them it doesn't mean that much to the adventure.
Also, the random encounter tables seem like they would be one of the last elements worked on, so I'm thinking there's a good chance they were Mentzer's too.
Scott

[godentag from DF]

Scott,

That's a good point you make about the random encounter tables being worked on last...when I started working on my TOEE revision it seemed strange to me that on the 4th level, it was possible to run into Zuggtmoy (if freed) or Falrinth & Smigmal, but none of the other leaders. I can see your point about not knowing for certain whether that's a later insertion or a carryover of earlier material.

Also a good point about the orb...it ties together the nodes with the temple, but beyond that doesn't really seem that vital. The orb could easily have been a device Mentzer created by himself just to tie the dungeons together with the nodes (needing some way to facilitate travel between the two). I wish I'd had some of Mentzer's work to look at for comparative purposes before working on my revision of TOEE, but oh well...still an interesting question.

When I first started thinking of T2+ as something to tinker with, I began with the premise that the T2: Nulb and the Ruins "Players' Historical Notes" and "Notes for the Dungeon Master" were more likely to be "pure" Gygax, while the "Players;' Background" and "Secret History of the Temple" seemed more like sections that had been later rewritten/created. It may be impossible to be sure, but it's been interesting to try to sort it out!

[Merkholz]

Guest-godentag said:

merkholtz,

I'm really curious why you think the illusion is a Mentzer insertion...

I'm sorry that I cannot quote the R series to state what gave me that impression but there were certain illusion encounters in R1-4 that had the same feel to it as the basilisk setup. Also, I cannot remember Gary doing anything similar in any of the other modules.

If and when I have the time I'll do a comparison and return to the subject.

M

[Scott]

I've been doing some thinking on illusions lately, and I've changed my mind on this encounter. Since in addition to the sensory components of an illusion (the illusion part of the spell) there is also magic actively affecting the mind (the phantasm part), this encounter should work as is. The magic effecting your mind is going to make sure you recognize the basilisk for what it is and what it does.
Scott