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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 15, 2018 15:48:00 GMT -5
"Baby Face" Nelson had a hideout, the Lake Como Inn, in Lake Geneva, WI...
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 16, 2018 7:52:17 GMT -5
So how would the other elemental connections per Paracelsus {Mercury, sulphur, and salt}, come into play via an expanded TOEE lower levels leading possibly to a hidden EEG shrine or temple? I'd like to see more references pulled in from medieval alchemy like the philosopher's stone, base metals, noble metals, the alkahest (sort of the opposite of viscid globs if you think about it), the elixir of immortality, and the concept of quintessence, or a fifth element which is aether, and how that connects all to the Ethereal Plane.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 16, 2018 9:47:29 GMT -5
I did a bit for Rob Kuntz's Pied Piper Publishing mailing list EL RAJA KEY’S MAGICAL EMPORIUM #2 (2002) I think that I redid the original image that I drew with a computer program and posted in on my now defunct "GEOCITIES" website that has a ghost image still on line: www.oocities.org/wildbillhackock/THEPHILOSOPHERREMAKE.pdfAs an aside, that ghost website is just junk but it has the Trowbane material (which will be expanded in the TOEE expansion with the monastery; thats how this whole thing got started!).
It also contains the list of villagers that will be featured in THE BROKEN CASTLE publishing effort that I've been working on. So its kind of an inactive preview of sorts.
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Post by Scott on Mar 16, 2018 12:37:53 GMT -5
I remember that stuff, Gene. I thought it was lost in the PPP aether.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 16, 2018 12:57:52 GMT -5
The more I look into VOH, the more it seems there are mafia/gangster connections present:
1) the marksman tailor in cottage @ #11 = a "button man?"; a "picciotto?" {"little man"}? 2) "associate" {Giovane D'Onore?} of Burne, Rufus (note that Rufus level title is myrmi(Don), coming from legendary Greek mythology, "myrmex" created by Zeus from a colony of ants "grain-beaters") = not a member of a crime family, but works for a crime family? and/or a "Caporegime" captain of 20+ "soldiers", Rufus' mercenary captain = "Sotto Capo?" 3) Black Jay = "black hander" or he betrayed Cosa Nostra and thereafter his flesh was burned? 4) captain of the militia = upholding omertà, a "Capo di Capi Re" member emeritus? 5) Lubash = "Capo Bastone" {"Club Head"}, second in command to Lareth who is "Capo Crimine" {"Crime Boss"}? Lareth's lieutenant = "Consigliere?" 6) elder, Jaroo, Terjon = "Consigliere" advisor(s)? 7) guard tower mercenary troops and/or Hommlet Company = "Sgarrista/Soldato" soldiers? 8) Burne = "Capofamiglia" Godfather/Don/Boss of "VOH enterprises", who is paid to provide "protection?" Lareth = rival Don? Jaroo = rival Don? Terjon = rival Don? Rannos Davl = rival Don?
The mafia has disputed origins: medieval period "Robin Hood" and "Knights" "men of honor" legends? Righteous and honorable rebels to defend local people from oppression, control, and barbarian invasion? Formed near the end of Feudalism (which could make the VOH elder a Gabelloti)?
Myrmidons, or myrmex, evoke Achilles in the Trojan War, and associated literature of Homer, Ovid, and Shakespeare...also the myth of Zeus and Hera's jealousy of his lover, nymph Aegina...also evoking the seven writings of The prophet Mani = Manichaeism {cult of TOEE}?
Thoughts on this anyone?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 23, 2018 10:59:52 GMT -5
If it is a possibility that Hommlet contains some shadow elements of Lake Geneva:
Is it possible that a former or else soon to be constructed "Oak Leigh (Hill) Sanitarium" is in view on the VOH map? Since the Oak Leigh (Hill) Sanitarium was on rising ground just south of Seminary Park, is it a fair speculation that the tunnels/warrens of the former sanitarium building may lie beneath a current VOH building structure(s)?
What would these tunnels/warrens be like if they were located beneath the brewer's building VOH location #18?
What denizens/intrigue would it be possible to introduce into VOH if something wicked lurks in warrens beneath Hommlet?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 23, 2018 11:12:37 GMT -5
Or maybe instead it was in the past located either beneath the guard tower or else beneath the hill where the keep is to be constructed?
I keep looking at the bald hill at the Northeast VOH map and wondering about this locale? What might be or have been there? Did this inspire or was it inspired by bald hill in L1?
Come to think of it, was the 1979 L3 manuscript that had been shelved inspired by a possible dungeon adventure originally envisioned within the Lortmil Mountains, possibly to connect with VOH and TOEE, but was later instead moved to Lakofka's Lendore Islands WOG developmental area?
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 23, 2018 13:12:59 GMT -5
I don't know about the Lakofka connection. It seems he, and Rob, came aboard the Greyhawk train at a certain time post-folio for Greyhawk as full -fledged developers. Prior to that time, it seems they were free wheeling and not really around official official. Specifically from what Gary told me directly is Lakofka was part of the Dragon columnist thing which there was a disconnect that I don't know specifics but thats how it seems the way he was talking (and Rob was bathing in royalties according to Gary until 1981).
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Post by grodog on Mar 28, 2018 10:12:54 GMT -5
I remember that stuff, Gene. I thought it was lost in the PPP aether. I thought that I had all of the ERKME newsletters archived and linked on my site, but I apparently don't have them linked (the files are posted, just not accessible if you don't know the URLs). I'll add them Allan.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 29, 2018 14:06:38 GMT -5
I am tentatively looking at the VOH location #23 residents as similar family characteristics of Bob, Burris, and Mayella Ewell in "To Kill A Mockingbird."
It seems like a reference here - they are poor farmers, better at hunting/fishing/trapping, and excluded from most village functions.
That they hide their meager savings in a hollow of a tree to the north also seems to allude to this literature, although in the book, this is where Jeremy Atticus "Jem" and Jean Louise "Scout" Finch found gifts from "Boo" Arthur Radley.
I'm thinking of making the 1st level fighter spinster daughter of the hunter class instead, and a possible NPC addition to an adventuring PC party. I might even name her Mayella, and she might even instigate a false rape claim against a PC party member at the prodding of her father?
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 29, 2018 15:00:33 GMT -5
"Which one of the party did it, girl?"
"Him!"
"Admiral Cartwright?"
"I told you that to offer the locals a safe haven within the party is suicide. They would become the trash of the galaxy... I, mean the Flanaess. "
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 30, 2018 2:11:13 GMT -5
“I think that half-orc outsider did it. Everybody knows they’re all rapists.”
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 30, 2018 14:30:57 GMT -5
In bold print on the original VOH module cover, and repeated on the first page of the module leaflet: "Dungeon Module T1" It does say in bold, "The Village of Hommlet" directly below this on the next line. It's a curious juxtaposition - perhaps worth looking at more closely? How are the contents of this publication, primarily a detailed village of Hommlet, referred to solely as a dungeon module? Maybe we should break this apart to look at "Dungeon Module T1" by itself: Dungeon Module T(ee)1(one) = "monologue: teen-endued" {EGG speaking alone: endued (indued/endowed) invested (clothed) and provided (gifted, as per a dowry) with qualities and traits pertaining to teens}? So the "T" module marker is not necessarily standing solely for "temple?" It is standing also for "teen?" Which is why this adventure module is chock full of "coming of age tales" background contents?" So when EGG ran this pre-published adventure play test with his children and some others (mostly pre-teen and teen audience), and afterwards when he published to a primarily pre-teen and teen audience, he purposefully designed this adventure with some teen coming of age contents that would be recognized, it's woven in throughout: for example, hidden treasure in the hollow of a tree = To Kill a Mockingbird. There are many examples of this throughout, and I'm sure I haven't found them all? Some to consider within this interwoven text (and in continuation TOEE): (1) To Kill a Mockingbird (2) Of Mice and Men (3) The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton (authored as teenager)? (4) Sir Gawain & the Green Knight (5) Parzival (6) Comics containing the elementals, overlord/mockingbird/Paracelsus (7) Shane (8) Hamlet (9) In Cold Blood? (10) Due to the possibility of EGG proxy in VOH as local leatherworker, who had 12-year old eldest = Ernie Gygax in 1971, what are possible film/literature/comics connections from 1971? Big Jake starring John Wayne? The Beguiled starring Clint Eastwood (seven women + one elder man)? That Was Then, This Is Now by S.E. Hinton? Wonderland by Joyce Carol Oates? McCabe & Mrs. Miller? MacBeth? A Clockwork Orange? The French Connection? Straw Dogs? For comics, "House of Mystery?", "Superboy?", "Red Wolf?" Note that Jaroo Ashstaff, agent of Gnarley Forest {"Eastwood" from VOH perspective} Druids? Here is my next tentative connection: Elmo = Gene Hackman in 1971 "The French Connection," where he played character Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle. Gene is a form of the name John, as is Jack, and we know Elmo must refer to an actual John, because he is noted in VOH encounter description location #2 as to be found at the inn having a jack of ale....and he's certainly both a Hackman with his battleaxe and also a Popeye with his strength, the Popeye allusion could be to indicate that Elmo can transform before the partys' eyes = werebear?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 30, 2018 15:00:33 GMT -5
Next item is to look at in bold VOH module top of page 3: KEY TO THE VILLAGE OF HOMMLET.
Deleting the minor words, we have KEYVILLAGEHOMMLET = MEEK + EVIL + MOAT + GHYLL.
So, key to this adventure setting is fourfold:
1) Meek {for the most part} people of Hommlet 2) Evil lurking within and near to Hommlet 3) Moat needed to protect Hommlet, and also set piece lair protecting nearby lurking evil 4) Ghyll (ravine) dividing Hommlet and also another set piece nearby lurking evil
Due to the presence of element #4 in the key to the village of Hommlet, I am tentatively proposing that the caves of chaos adventure set piece could have been intended lurking evil set piece for this adventure locale. Perhaps EGG incorporated some, if not all, of the caves of chaos found within B2 Keep on the Borderlands. I'm thinking that at least much, if not all, of the caves of chaos ravine was initially set within the immediate area of Hommlet - certainly at least the shrine of evil chaos.
EGG could have added the keep to the published B2 to what he had already had on hand from his kids and friends adventuring around Hommlet and Nulb? Or was the keep what was eventually to be built to supplement Hommlet's guard tower?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 30, 2018 15:14:55 GMT -5
In bold print on the original VOH module cover, and repeated on the first page of the module leaflet: "Dungeon Module T1" It does say in bold, "The Village of Hommlet" directly below this on the next line. It's a curious juxtaposition - perhaps worth looking at more closely? How are the contents of this publication, primarily a detailed village of Hommlet, referred to solely as a dungeon module? Maybe we should break this apart to look at "Dungeon Module T1" by itself: Dungeon Module T(ee)1(one) = "monologue: teen-endued" {EGG speaking alone: endued (indued/endowed) invested (clothed) and provided (gifted, as per a dowry) with qualities and traits pertaining to teens}? So the "T" module marker is not necessarily standing solely for "temple?" It is standing also for "teen?" Which is why this adventure module is chock full of "coming of age tales" background contents?" So when EGG ran this pre-published adventure play test with his children and some others (mostly pre-teen and teen audience), and afterwards when he published to a primarily pre-teen and teen audience, he purposefully designed this adventure with some teen coming of age contents that would be recognized, it's woven in throughout: for example, hidden treasure in the hollow of a tree = To Kill a Mockingbird. There are many examples of this throughout, and I'm sure I haven't found them all? Some to consider within this interwoven text (and in continuation TOEE): (1) To Kill a Mockingbird (2) Of Mice and Men (3) The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton (authored as teenager)? (4) Sir Gawain & the Green Knight (5) Parzival (6) Comics containing the elementals, overlord/mockingbird/Paracelsus (7) Shane (8) Hamlet (9) In Cold Blood? (10) Due to the possibility of EGG proxy in VOH as local leatherworker, who had 12-year old eldest = Ernie Gygax in 1971, what are possible film/literature/comics connections from 1971? Big Jake starring John Wayne? The Beguiled starring Clint Eastwood (seven women + one elder man)? That Was Then, This Is Now by S.E. Hinton? Wonderland by Joyce Carol Oates? McCabe & Mrs. Miller? MacBeth? A Clockwork Orange? The French Connection? Straw Dogs? For comics, "House of Mystery?", "Superboy?", "Red Wolf?" Note that Jaroo Ashstaff, agent of Gnarley Forest {"Eastwood" from VOH perspective} Druids? Here is my next tentative connection: Elmo = Gene Hackman in 1971 "The French Connection," where he played character Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle. Gene is a form of the name John, as is Jack, and we know Elmo must refer to an actual John, because he is noted in VOH encounter description location #2 as to be found at the inn having a jack of ale....and he's certainly both a Hackman with his battleaxe and also a Popeye with his strength, the Popeye allusion could be to indicate that Elmo can transform before the partys' eyes = werebear? Since we know have a "Doyle" presence via Gene Hackman's character, Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle, we need also pay attention to Sir Arthur Ignatius Conan Doyle. This is why so much detective work is needed for this adventure! it can be expected based on the Sherlock Holmes author that we will eventually find Sir Arthur Pendragon Ignatius of Antioch and Conan references here.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 30, 2018 15:17:19 GMT -5
He said it was generic so it was supposed to be anywhere but he gave me a specific suggestion for placement on the verge of the Principality of Ulek I have the hex location somewhere but I'm not sure where I put it. I had him point it out on a map.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 30, 2018 15:21:52 GMT -5
The other potential is Ignatius of Loyola.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 30, 2018 15:29:00 GMT -5
We also have barman Wat in Nulb, which raises the question, who is Wat's son = Doctor Watson?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 30, 2018 15:42:28 GMT -5
Sir Henry Littlejohn is thought to be inspiration for the Sherlock Holmes character, which could be why the leather worker at VOH location #6 has a "little John" Ernie Gygax? {note that the 12 year old boy has a leather jack, indicating we should see him as a little John.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 30, 2018 16:54:24 GMT -5
"The Adventure of the Silver Blaze" seems to fit well as possible plot twist to happen within VOH?
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
The Sherlock Holmes short story features disappearance of a famous race horse {owned by the elder?}, murder of the horse's trainer {John Straker}, a cataract knife found at the crime scene {was it the tailor?}, a club like walking stick {was it the Druid of the grove?}, a coat found draped on a furze bush, a cravat from an outsider in the victim's hand who had been previously expelled from town {that's why Mytch's family is cool toward strangers, suspicious with good cause}, the stable hand guard {Ned Hunter} (from VOH location #23?) drugged with opium after eating curried mutton, a shepherds three sheep kept at the stable having recently become suddenly lame, a milliner's bill for a 22-Guinea dress found on the victim (that's why it mentions the possibility of a milliner moving in to Hommlet was added into the "other adventures" section page 6 TOEE?!), a tallow candle found on the victim, the owners' dog staying quiet during the night of the horse's disappearance, the horse trainer discovered to have an expensive mistress, the horse that had disappeared was hiding in plain sight as dye was used to cover its distinguishing white markings, and the villain trying to earn a large sum of money by making the horse lame before a horse race!
"Elementary my dear Watson!"
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