Falrinth

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Looking at Falrinth more closely...

His name contains, "inthral" or in other words, inthrall/enthrall...

So this meaning he is enslaved/captivated/enchanted/spellbound by Lolth, or instead/also meaning by the EEG?

This must be EGG's creation, not FM, there are too many layers here:

(A) trinal = having three parts. In thrall of three great powers or of a triune power? Falrinth + Lareth + another powerful man in fraternal league together? Is the fiery eye Y in triangle sign meaning that the EEG is bringing "forked" deviltry powers in league with demonic sorcerous powers to both secure his release from imprisonment and also as minions to reestablish the EEG's dominion?

(B) ratlin = small horizontal rope between shrouds of sailing ship {making a ladder to climb aloft} AND a long thin flexible cord or rope.

Ships' "rats" would climb the ratheling {lines} to go aloft on the ship. This possibly comes down from Old English derivation of writhan = to writhe.

Is the temple of elemental evil akin to a planar ship? Is Falrinth {like pirate crew?} seeking to "climb aloft" via the "ratlin" from the WOG prime material TOEE manifestation via the shadow or ethereal plane? Is there some sort of shadow or ethereal ships ratlin rigging {woven by Lolth?} leading aloft of the temple {a hidden elemental air cavern crow's nest, from which vantage a portal of communication with the imprisoned EEG resides}?

That's why there's pirates in Nulb working the Imerdys Run to raid on the Velverdyva River. That's why there is rat-faced young apprentice {to Otis} Sammy snooping where the ranger knight hides his special equipment, and why the moathouse {literally} and VOH {figuratively} is filled with rats both normal and monstrous.

By mashing Falrinth + Lareth, trilateral falls out as well... Who is the trilateral "third party" powerful evil man in league with both Falrinth and Lareth? Are we intended to see Rannos Davl as the third major minion in service to Lolth?

[GRWelsh]

Feb 19, 2018 14:42:56 GMT -5 davegibsongreyhawkdm said:

By mashing Falrinth + Lareth, trilateral falls out as well... Who is the trilateral "third party" powerful evil man in league with both Falrinth and Lareth? Are we intended to see Rannos Davl as the third major minion in service to Lolth?

Dave, we all know EGG played around with word meanings, in the form of anagrams or partial anagrams of concealed or not-so-concealed real people (Arneson showing up as Nosnra and Rannos Davl), abbreviations (Erelhei-cinlu having the first parts of his first five kids' names), and archaic word use (such as from POPLOLLIES & BELLIBONES), but do you have any examples of EGG mashing up two names of fictional characters in the way you are doing?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Feb 20, 2018 8:52:05 GMT -5 GRWelsh said:

Feb 19, 2018 14:42:56 GMT -5 davegibsongreyhawkdm said:

By mashing Falrinth + Lareth, trilateral falls out as well... Who is the trilateral "third party" powerful evil man in league with both Falrinth and Lareth? Are we intended to see Rannos Davl as the third major minion in service to Lolth?

Dave, we all know EGG played around with word meanings, in the form of anagrams or partial anagrams of concealed or not-so-concealed real people (Arneson showing up as Nosnra and Rannos Davl), abbreviations (Erelhei-cinlu having the first parts of his first five kids' names), and archaic word use (such as from POPLOLLIES & BELLIBONES), but do you have any examples of EGG mashing up two names of fictional characters in the way you are doing?

I admit it may be stretching too far {by mashing up names} what EGG has within VOH & TOEE...I don't know? He is a phenomenally creative mind and writer, it's hard to sniff out and follow his tracks...Lareth and Falrinth are linked both as followers of Lolth and their names similarity, which is why I tried mashing their names.

On the other hand, I feel convinced there is much more within the VOH & TOEE texts that meet the eye from a surface level.

I think there are wheels within wheels in the text {including a combination of source myths to create an ur-text for this adventure}, and other common items within the text: dogs, rats, wheels, etc. are sign posts to pay attention to.

The wheel is a big deal symbol here that cannot be overstated: we have wheels of intrigue, wainwright/wheelwright, the air temple faction hub & spoke wheel symbol, VOH module cover artwork of eight trumpets arrayed from fiery eye, etc.

In addition, I think there is embedded within the text some evidence of how EGG structured this adventuring locale, which would give insight into how to creatively develop other adventure locales. When I can put my thoughts together, I will post more on the Inn of the Welcome Wench, which is the "hub" of Hommlet's "wheel."

A picture that came to mind regarding Hommlet and the temple, is like two opposing wheels mounted on the axle of a cart. Their parallel structure looks similar from first appearances, yet in many ways they are an appositional reflection identifying the other. For example, I would propose the supposed "community" of Hommlet is actually a ruse: the elder, justice of the peace "magistrate" appears to have a unified town council with seven other members, yet beneath the surface, it seems like in truth this is factionalized diverse and conflicting interests. On the other hand, the apparent factionalized temple of seven competitors, is truly unified into a functioning "community" by an eighth shadowy "elder" the EEG. So, if this path is followed, we need to look at Hommlet to differentiate truth from ruse at the temple, and vice versa.

In the end, some guesses I am making won't fit and will need to be discarded, however, some might fit or be close enough for all of you to steer me into the correct fit, like Gene certainly did with Sir Gareth, loll, and the Wabash River.

I am inviting all of you to critique, so as to get as much of EGG's depth understood as possible! That's what makes this discussion board valuable to me, because I can get such great feedback from people smarter than me and who knew EGG like I never did!

[geneweigel]

Falstaff or Parsifal + labyrinth

Falsatff - Shakespearean character "Sir John Falstaff - Origin cunning knight of the Hundred Years War "John Fastolf". Fastolf meaning "son of Fast" literally "son of strength"

Parsifal - knight of the round table - percer "to pierce, break through" (see pierce) + val "valley" (see vale). "Vale" connotation associated with removed places of terror or wonder "Vale of tears" or "Val sans retour" (Valley of no return) .

Labyrinth - Some of the etymologies of axe + palace or alley/street + were not well known so we can assume "-rinth" just implies just the maze connotation.

Strength maze of Vale of the maze?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Feb 20, 2018 12:32:41 GMT -5 geneweigel said:

Falstaff or Parsifal + labyrinth

Falsatff - Shakespearean character "Sir John Falstaff - Origin cunning knight of the Hundred Years War "John Fastolf". Fastolf meaning "son of Fast" literally "son of strength"

Parsifal - knight of the round table - percer "to pierce, break through" (see pierce) + val "valley" (see vale). "Vale" connotation associated with removed places of terror or wonder "Vale of tears" or "Val sans retour" (Valley of no return) .

Labyrinth - Some of the etymologies of axe + palace or alley/street + were not well known so we can assume "-rinth" just implies just the maze connotation.

Strength maze of Vale of the maze?

Very interesting, Gene!

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Feb 20, 2018 12:32:41 GMT -5 geneweigel said:

Falstaff or Parsifal + labyrinth

Falsatff - Shakespearean character "Sir John Falstaff - Origin cunning knight of the Hundred Years War "John Fastolf". Fastolf meaning "son of Fast" literally "son of strength"

Parsifal - knight of the round table - percer "to pierce, break through" (see pierce) + val "valley" (see vale). "Vale" connotation associated with removed places of terror or wonder "Vale of tears" or "Val sans retour" (Valley of no return) .

Labyrinth - Some of the etymologies of axe + palace or alley/street + were not well known so we can assume "-rinth" just implies just the maze connotation.

Strength maze of Vale of the maze?

Labrys = "Sign of the Labrys" by Margaret St. Clair? DMG Appendix N reference, she also wrote "The Shadow People." Is it indication that there is a plane of shadow connection to the temple?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Are some of the elemental nodes meant to be plane of shadow gates?

Or instead are the plane of shadow gates only accessible from the hall of elemental magic = room #339?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Feb 20, 2018 13:49:52 GMT -5 davegibsongreyhawkdm said:

Are some of the elemental nodes meant to be plane of shadow gates?

Or instead are the plane of shadow gates only accessible from the hall of elemental magic = room #339?

Would it be fitting that the hall of elemental magic has plane of shadow connections to the following four locales associated with Iggwlf/Iggwilv/Iggwily:

WG3 {S4} LCoT?
WG4 FToT?
WG5 MFA?
WG6 IotA?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Feb 20, 2018 12:32:41 GMT -5 geneweigel said:

Falstaff or Parsifal + labyrinth

Falsatff - Shakespearean character "Sir John Falstaff - Origin cunning knight of the Hundred Years War "John Fastolf". Fastolf meaning "son of Fast" literally "son of strength"

Parsifal - knight of the round table - percer "to pierce, break through" (see pierce) + val "valley" (see vale). "Vale" connotation associated with removed places of terror or wonder "Vale of tears" or "Val sans retour" (Valley of no return) .

Labyrinth - Some of the etymologies of axe + palace or alley/street + were not well known so we can assume "-rinth" just implies just the maze connotation.

Strength maze of Vale of the maze?

The "Labrys" double-bladed axe could be somewhat similar form of the "Y" within the triangle of the fiery eye sign? Lolth using as a matriarchal/pagan/fascist rulership symbol, but also has a "double-bitted" interpretation corresponding to the EEG? Is Lolth or Igwlf the "mistress of the labyrinth?"

Is it a reference to storm-god Zeus Labraundos? It would be fitting if the elemental nodes are connecting gates into the G/D series....thunderbolts often associated with the axe symbol and make divinities...is it Lolth or EEG's intent to supplant Zeus Labraundos?

The Greek word for lightning is star-axe, so perhaps Zeus' axe is needed to loose the EEG from imprisonment on a distant star?

Need to look at the myth of Theseus? A WOG allusion to Isles of Woe association with Knossos/Arkalochori cave/axe?

Zeus holding a double-bitted axe in one hand and a lotus-tipped sceptre in the other?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Feb 20, 2018 14:35:39 GMT -5 davegibsongreyhawkdm said:

Feb 20, 2018 12:32:41 GMT -5 geneweigel said:

Falstaff or Parsifal + labyrinth

Falsatff - Shakespearean character "Sir John Falstaff - Origin cunning knight of the Hundred Years War "John Fastolf". Fastolf meaning "son of Fast" literally "son of strength"

Parsifal - knight of the round table - percer "to pierce, break through" (see pierce) + val "valley" (see vale). "Vale" connotation associated with removed places of terror or wonder "Vale of tears" or "Val sans retour" (Valley of no return) .

Labyrinth - Some of the etymologies of axe + palace or alley/street + were not well known so we can assume "-rinth" just implies just the maze connotation.

Strength maze of Vale of the maze?

The "Labrys" double-bladed axe could be somewhat similar form of the "Y" within the triangle of the fiery eye sign? Lolth using as a matriarchal/pagan/fascist rulership symbol, but also has a "double-bitted" interpretation corresponding to the EEG? Is Lolth or Igwlf the "mistress of the labyrinth?"

Is it a reference to storm-god Zeus Labraundos? It would be fitting if the elemental nodes are connecting gates into the G/D series....thunderbolts often associated with the axe symbol and make divinities...is it Lolth or EEG's intent to supplant Zeus Labraundos?

The Greek word for lightning is star-axe, so perhaps Zeus' axe is needed to loose the EEG from imprisonment on a distant star?

Need to look at the myth of Theseus? A WOG allusion to Isles of Woe association with Knossos/Arkalochori cave/axe?

Zeus holding a double-bitted axe in one hand and a lotus-tipped sceptre in the other?

Does the lotus-tipped sceptre indicate a Acererak ToH connection? Is Acererak's sceptre also needed to free the EEG?