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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Feb 9, 2018 12:49:07 GMT -5
Is it intended to attribute any particular meaning whatsoever to the overlapping inverted triangles symbol found on the Tharizdun priestly robes?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 26, 2018 9:49:22 GMT -5
Is it intended to attribute any particular meaning whatsoever to the overlapping inverted triangles symbol found on the Tharizdun priestly robes? Triangles were part of the system of identification in Nazi concentration camps, so I am curious what evocative purpose the overlapping inverted triangles might mean in Tharizdun worship? Jehovah's Witness prisoners were identified by inverted purple triangle badges in the Nazi concentration camps...was EGG estranged from Jehovah's Witness or else still an active door-to-door evangelizer by the time he began publishing first edition AD&D in the late 1970's?
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Post by geneweigel on Apr 26, 2018 12:16:20 GMT -5
I talked with him on religion practically every interaction and I never realized he was religious until he had the stroke when he said some things that were religiously strong sentimented. Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure what his beliefs were.
Regarding Tharizdun, indirectly, I had a conversation with him about "avatars" in AD&D versus the Lorraine Williams' "corporate dawn raid" version of "avatars" that came out in 2nd Edition.
The running concept from his stolen notes (his words) on D&D (that appeared in DEITIES AND DEMIGODS(1980) briefly under INDIAN and MELNIBONEAN and applied in the GORD THE ROGUE novels) was that an avatar was not standard* and if they had one they could be separate. So Infestix was not Nerull just like the Tharizdun dealt with in WG4 is not Tharizdun but a separate version like in the D&D novels.
*In the 1988 redo of DEITIES AND DEMIGODS (retitled in 1985 to "LEGEND & LORE") called "2nd Edition AD&D LEGENDS & LORE", James Ward/Troy Denning chew up the concept and spit it out on all the deities as mandatory.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 26, 2018 13:05:06 GMT -5
I talked with him on religion practically every interaction and I never realized he was religious until he had the stroke when he said some things that were religiously strong sentimented. Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure what his beliefs were. Regarding Tharizdun, indirectly, I had a conversation with him about "avatars" in AD&D versus the Lorraine Williams' "corporate dawn raid" version of "avatars" that came out in 2nd Edition. The running concept from his stolen notes (his words) on D&D (that appeared in DEITIES AND DEMIGODS(1980) briefly under INDIAN and MELNIBONEAN and applied in the GORD THE ROGUE novels) was that an avatar was not standard* and if they had one they could be separate. So Infestix was not Nerull just like the Tharizdun dealt with in WG4 is not Tharizdun but a separate version like in the D&D novels. *In the 1988 redo of DEITIES AND DEMIGODS (retitled in 1985 to "LEGEND & LORE") called "2nd Edition AD&D LEGENDS & LORE", James Ward/Troy Denning chew up the concept and spit it out on all the deities as mandatory. It is interesting that VOH was published in 1979, a century after the split between Charles Taze Russell and Nelson H. Barbour happened, and the centennial anniversary of the first Watch Tower magazine publication...? Burne is "very conscious of his duty to protect the village and watch for evil...", from the two-storied tower, where "two men-at-arms watch from the roof..."? Looking at the various Nazi concentration camp symbols, it is possible that the Aryan race defiler symbol could be approaching similar to EGG's intended yellow Y eye of fire within a black triangle? The singular inverted black triangle was for various "asocial elements" within the Nazi concentration camps: Roma/Romani, anarchists, prostitutes, drug addicts, mentally ill, etc. So would the double-inverted layered black triangle symbol of Tharizdun represent his primordially evil priests behind the scenes working to mobilize seemingly disparate asocial, depraved, outcast, and demented demonic-led human/humanoid/monster forces?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 26, 2018 13:21:37 GMT -5
I talked with him on religion practically every interaction and I never realized he was religious until he had the stroke when he said some things that were religiously strong sentimented. Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure what his beliefs were. Regarding Tharizdun, indirectly, I had a conversation with him about "avatars" in AD&D versus the Lorraine Williams' "corporate dawn raid" version of "avatars" that came out in 2nd Edition. The running concept from his stolen notes (his words) on D&D (that appeared in DEITIES AND DEMIGODS(1980) briefly under INDIAN and MELNIBONEAN and applied in the GORD THE ROGUE novels) was that an avatar was not standard* and if they had one they could be separate. So Infestix was not Nerull just like the Tharizdun dealt with in WG4 is not Tharizdun but a separate version like in the D&D novels. *In the 1988 redo of DEITIES AND DEMIGODS (retitled in 1985 to "LEGEND & LORE") called "2nd Edition AD&D LEGENDS & LORE", James Ward/Troy Denning chew up the concept and spit it out on all the deities as mandatory. It's interesting that you brought up the Indian Mythos in Deities & Demigods, because Vishnu makes me think about Lareth as a (far less powerful, of course) anti-Vishnu personage, when I typically think about Lareth along fallen Arthurian heroes lines...
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Post by grodog on Apr 27, 2018 16:59:49 GMT -5
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 27, 2018 21:07:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the links, Allan - will look into these!
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 30, 2018 7:58:26 GMT -5
Allan: I read through the links and your additional thoughts...there is some interesting content to me...a thing of note - it is also there, Clark Ashton Smith, within VOH...
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Post by geneweigel on Apr 30, 2018 10:53:47 GMT -5
Gary was outspokenly not a fan of CAS. Twice I brought up CAS and twice shot it down. I told him I like a lot of his stories and he was like,"Was never a fan." Maybe he didn't like the protagonists. I don't know.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 30, 2018 10:58:04 GMT -5
Gary was outspokenly not a fan of CAS. Twice I brought up CAS and twice shot it down. I told him I like a lot of his stories and he was like,"Was never a fan." Maybe he didn't like the protagonists. I don't know. Given your discussions with EGG, it's interesting CAS is present within VOH, not sure yet if it as joke or disparagement or not? Or else he was trying to not tip off it is there so it's intact puzzle to uncover...?
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Post by geneweigel on Apr 30, 2018 11:10:24 GMT -5
Atmosphere-wise I love some CAS. Also Dunsany, they can reset the batteries.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 30, 2018 12:38:03 GMT -5
Allan: I read through the links and your additional thoughts...there is some interesting content to me...a thing of note - it is also there, Clark Ashton Smith, within VOH... Seems to me that the blog strand was deleted because some of these strands can be taken out further yet to reveal hidden artifacts, discoveries, and connections. As Allan comments on his blog post, dense writing is found within this dungeon module, and surprising connections not yet unOerthed...
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Post by grodog on Apr 30, 2018 23:04:03 GMT -5
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on May 1, 2018 0:39:50 GMT -5
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Post by Scott on Jul 28, 2019 20:00:29 GMT -5
It's possible the party could decline the gnomes' request for help, but most likely we'll be starting this adventure next. Because of a change in Mike's work schedule, we may be moving the game to Sunday afternoons, if you're interested Gary. Reading through this, I wonder what Gary was thinking when he wrote it. You know he wasn't a big picture or consistency kind of author. What do you think he imagined the Black Cyst to be? I've tried running this twice before, and both parties were TPKed in the first room.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jul 29, 2019 13:25:18 GMT -5
It's possible the party could decline the gnomes' request for help, but most likely we'll be starting this adventure next. Because of a change in Mike's work schedule, we may be moving the game to Sunday afternoons, if you're interested Gary. I am. Keep me posted.
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Post by Scott on Oct 6, 2019 10:07:06 GMT -5
Mike was finally able to work around his schedule, and we started The Forgotten Teple of Tharizdun last night. Gwaylar explained his problem to the party, and they agreed to help. The gnomes sent a scout with the party, Valbar, a fighter/thief. The party has a 4 seat carpet of flying, and Valbar brought the party total to five, so Ember the cleric got to ride in the Prison of Zagyg. Because they were on a flying carpet the avoided most of the wilderness hazards as they searched the mountains. As they were flying they were approached by a lone aarakocra. He made no aggressive gestures, so the party talked to him. He told the party he knew the place where the norkers and other humanoids were coming from, and explained he would show them the way if the party would deal with a griffin problem his people were having. The party agreed and followed the aarakocra to a valley where he said his people once lived, but were chased out by the griffins. The party located the griffins lair and dealt with quickly, they rolled poorly on saves and only one engaged in melee. They spent the night resting in the valley, and the next morning they followed the aarakocra to the Temple. The party scouted the place on their carpet, and were the first party (ran this twice before) to see the runes on the roof cursing the forces of good and light. They landed outside, released Ember from the birdcage, and with all of the resources at their disposal they just blundered into the entrance and had the net dropped on them. Plasolder was the only party member not caught in the net. Gnolls stepped out from behind a large pillar and started firing arrows. He charged them, as unseen norkers closed in behind him. Valbar was the only party member really trapped by the net. The rest of the party managed to escape after a few rounds. The prior two times I ran this adventure, it ended in TPKs in this room. This party survived where the prior two failed because after the first sign of reinforcements from the dungeons, they blocked the steps with magic walls slowing the flow of reinforcements. Gnolls and norkers, even with a few rounds of advantage due to the net, aren't a real challenge to an 8th-9th level party, but add a constant flow of more gnolls and workers, ogres, trolls, giant trolls and giants, and your overwhelmed before you realize it. We weren't able to finish the battle last night. We ended it after they killed the original humanoids and some of the reinforcements. Valbar is down. More reinforcements have just broken through a wall of ice the party had set up across the top of the steps.
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Post by grodog on Oct 6, 2019 12:08:31 GMT -5
Looking forward to hearing more on their progress, Scott! =)
Allan.
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 7, 2019 8:43:17 GMT -5
I'm glad they survived the Temple entrance. That encounter always seemed like EGG's way of saying, "A lot of AD&D players become arrogant and careless! Well, if you want to play stupidly, here's an easy death for you!"
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Post by Scott on Oct 7, 2019 9:16:49 GMT -5
It’s a very sneaky encounter. It starts out with some weak humanoids, but the waves of increasingly tougher reinforcements creep up on you, and before you know it party members are dropping and you’re overwhelmed.
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