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Post by geneweigel on Feb 14, 2018 16:40:55 GMT -5
There are some chi-rho variants that have trumpets and a "P" at the same angle. So its definitely in the zone. Its far out there but it could be. Add that to the talk of Tramp getting the eye "wrong" which I've heard before.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Feb 14, 2018 21:49:54 GMT -5
I think, now this is theory, they wanted to move away from Blackmoor and the plastic castle toy (Siege of Bodenburg) set up that was popular with all of them for Castle Greyhawk. So my theory is the pics of Trampier that he did of the Moathouse are what was supposed to be Greyhawk based on the plastic Bodenburg thing. And perhaps the "chi rho" shield is a version of the "crooked P" insanity rune from the 1980 boxed set which we all know the "madness rune" is the holy symbol of Zagyg. In the 1983 boxed set the insanity rune is altered to look like squiggles. Here is the link where I compared 1980 to 1983 runes and glyphs: justkeeponrollin.blogspot.com/2016/11/portentuous-runes-and-glyphs-study.htmlIts a good theory but is it true? Who knows? Some of these old timers just say anything. I don't have the WOG boxed set, all I have is the WOG folio to go by.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Feb 26, 2018 9:55:32 GMT -5
The major thing is people. Thats like the people surrounding him in his life. I don't think he had a major grudge against anyone in TSR at the T1 time period but I could imagine he could generate quite a few people who didn't like him because of his outspoken nature. These might be sources of all these elements. The fact that he named Erelhei-Cinlu after his children is most likely representative of children's mischief. Thats a big leap so Arneson as a leader of hill giants and/or or a highly suspicious trader secretly working for the Temple of Elemental Evil is most likely a fun poke at Dave's tendency to not be on the same page as Gary. So with this in mind it can be applied to most of the TOEE characters. Agreed, the major thing is people, and it's becoming apparent that within both VOH and TOEE we have allusions to people surrounding EGG in his life, as well as allusions to mythological/historical/literary people: Sir Gareth (Beaumains) Sir Lancelot King Lot? Queen/Lady Guinevere? King Uther Pendragon? young King Arthur Pendragon/Hamlet? George Milton & Lennie Small George, Duke of Clarence King Edward IV, son of York Richard III? Lady Anne? Sir John Falstaff/John Fastolf Parsifal/Parzival/Percival (Wagner opera based on epic poem of Arthurian knight Percival and his quest for the Holy Grail)? Rommel "the desert fox" What other mythological/historical/literary people are evident from the VOH & TOEE texts and understanding of EGG's interests and methods? What other allusions is it possible to see here?
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 26, 2018 10:53:08 GMT -5
He was no stranger to movies and television in general and fiction-wise, while he had correspondence with many writers the most notable (from conversations that I had with Gary) were Leiber, Vance and Gardner F. Fox to which he had mentioned phone calls to all of them "just like we're having now" (in his words). They seemed like they were close friends with him by the time D&D started.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Feb 26, 2018 11:16:24 GMT -5
He was no stranger to movies and television in general and fiction-wise, while he had correspondence with many writers the most notable (from conversations that I had with Gary) were Leiber, Vance and Gardner F. Fox to which he had mentioned phone calls to all of them "just like we're having now" (in his words). They seemed like they were close friends with him by the time D&D started. Lieber and Vance I had heard about, but I hadn't known about Gardner F. Fox - interesting! Is it known the extent of correspondence/communications EGG had with others noted in DMG's appendix N?
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 26, 2018 11:21:30 GMT -5
The LANKHMAR game was completely devised by Gary (his words) with Fritz' stamp of approval on the final product. The myth that Fritz had a game that was the prototype for D&D that the LANKHMAR game product was based on was just hype created by TSR (pre- and post-Gary) according to what Gary told me.
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 26, 2018 11:33:15 GMT -5
He had spoken with Moorcock but he didn't get into detail. Not Tolkien for sure. I recall him mentioning specifically DeCamp very prominently being in contact. Also mentioned were Williamson, Pratt and Saberhagen. We spoke about Merritt because his name kept popping up (around here and elsewhere on the long forgotten "Gene Weigel's Dungeon Forum" and the "Pied Piper Publishing Forum") and was talking about the 1936 movie THE DEVIL-DOLL which I was saying they didn't even try to get close to the weirdness of the short story BURN WITCH BURN. He knew it. "Lionel Barrymore in drag, right?"
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Feb 26, 2018 16:31:39 GMT -5
He was no stranger to movies and television in general and fiction-wise, while he had correspondence with many writers the most notable (from conversations that I had with Gary) were Leiber, Vance and Gardner F. Fox to which he had mentioned phone calls to all of them "just like we're having now" (in his words). They seemed like they were close friends with him by the time D&D started. So with Gardner F. Fox, a reputed polymath/polyhistor, then it is strong likelihood to have EGG drawing from multi-disciplinary learned fields: science, technology, engineering, mathematics, philology, erudition, philosophy, theology, polygraphy, the arts {literature, poetry, movies, plays, etc.} in crafting his works? That's a broad band range of complex influences accumulating into ur-texts for EGG's adventure modules! EGG a modern-day Renaissance man, unquenchable curiosity and feverishly inventive imagination! Able to combine all human knowledge fields to create a "Mona Lisa" masterpiece = that's why his adventure module locales have such vibrant depth and are much worth exploring at deeper levels... Did EGG read and use John Brunner's "Polymath" as source material? Maybe having to do with "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" adventure locale? Zagig Yragerne or Iggwlf as a polymath character type refugee from another planet? Or would this be Ganz or else instead His Most Magical Authority, the Exalted Mage of the Valley and Laird of the Domain? In this novel, two spacecraft escaped a cosmic catastrophe, one landing in the jungle in a mountainous area {Barrier Peaks?} and the other lands on water {the Lake of Unknown Depths, the Nyr Dyv?}?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 12, 2018 11:23:31 GMT -5
Lareth is probably "Sir Gareth" (Beaumains) mixed with a guy named "Larry" Lubash (??) but saying it with "Lareth" is reminding me of "Lash Larue" for some reason. Wabash river in Gary's birthplace Illinois? It shines dark? Lolth. I don't know. I've heard the name "Lolly" and "Lol" as nicknames for "Laura". So it could just be a cruel love interest. It was Laura "Lol" Throgmartin! She "Lolthed" me! Dave Gibson post: "It shines dark" river I think references the Stephen King novel he abandoned writing in 1972 "Darkshine" about a psychic boy in a psychic amusement park...after Stephen and Tabitha King stayed as the sole guests in room #217 at the Stanley Hotel, just before it was closing for the season, the story came back to him, leading to him writing "The Shining." An inspiration for King was Ray Bradbury's "The Veldt", about a person whose dreams would become real. Is the ruined moathouse possibly a reflection of the Overlook {Stanley} Hotel? Or is instead this intended to be a future more westerly setting outpost overtaken by the TOEE located in the Lortmil Mountains?
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