foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Jan 11, 2017 16:23:58 GMT -5
In Dragon #71 (reprinted in the WOG boxed set) Gary mentions these two "personages" as NPCs on a similar power-level as Mordenkainen and Tenser, below the level of the quasi-deities, and declines to provide other details about them since they were both active in the campaign. Other than this reference and the spells and magic items that bear their names, was any other Gary-based (i.e. from the Gord novels, or from personal correspondence) detail ever provided about these two individuals? Otiluke's name is obviously derived of Otis + Luke, but it's probably a mistake to read too much into that (to, for instance, do mental contortions to try to make "Otiluke" = Otis the ranger from T1-4).
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Post by Scott on Jan 11, 2017 17:11:34 GMT -5
My guess is they were never developed beyond vague notions in Gary's head.
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Post by grodog on Jan 11, 2017 17:17:20 GMT -5
I don't think that there's much defined about either figure, in general:
All those references are post-Gygax except for the quotations from Dragon 71 (and the Dragon 68 spells article from Gary, and the Dragon 82 article on spell research where the names are simply referenced/used without context), and the World of Greyhawk Glassography page 33 entry, which re-mentions the same info from the Dragon 71 article.
I thought perhaps that they might show up in Rob's DVD archive in the Wild Coast inhabitants document, but didn't find them there either. Neither is mentioned in Bottle City's list of players either.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 11, 2017 18:04:28 GMT -5
Otiluke is Luke playing Otis and it didn't sound right.
I got this straight from his mouth.
Here's my theory on Bucknard. I believe, without solid proof, that it is a wordplay on "Brian Blume" and his character "Vecna". Just picture Blume droning out the name Vecna over and over "Vecna, Veck -NA, Veckna, Vecknar, Vucknar..." and then someone complaining to Gygax about Blume's fantasy asthetic and him saying,leave "Buck"-nar and his everful purse" alone we need him. Gary had mentioned Blume playing "Vecna" and I had mentioned I have an ancestor with that as a surname ("Von Weckner") which he said he had no idea.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jan 12, 2017 8:48:49 GMT -5
I've always pictured Otiluke as an ice wizard who looks vaguely like Luke Gygax. A wizard with lots of ice and sphere-themed spells (ice, force, stasis, etc.).
I'd love to hear Luke's ideas on that, even if the "real Otiluke" the spells were named after was in actuality not a wizard at all but just word-play on Luke playing Otis the ranger.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 12, 2017 11:33:37 GMT -5
Yeah, its retconning because the character should have been able to use his own spell. I just noticed they upped his level and didn't correct his "level title":
Level 10 is "Ranger Lord" so this is weird because even STRATEGIC REVIEW #2(Summer 1975) had it as Ranger Lord.
I think:
1) either the "Otis' Freezing Sphere" spell was lower range 1st or 2nd level
or
2) the original pre-AD&D Ranger of (STRATEGIC REVIEW #2(Summer 1975) was "patterned out" for spell progression making Otis too high for a module. Here is the progression:
So 6th level MU spells (if Luke created spell for 6th) would be available at 19th level.
Its a campaign not a ruleset and its a playtesting campaign that laid out new ideas so I'd guess either or was going on.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 12, 2017 11:42:13 GMT -5
He also may have had altered magical powers. I keep forgetting shit like that.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jan 12, 2017 12:05:42 GMT -5
Or, Luke's ranger character may not have had the "Otiluke's Freezing Sphere" spell at all. It might be the case that EGG simply invented that spell, and put Otiluke's name on it, in the tradition of Vancian naming conventions.
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Post by Scott on Jan 12, 2017 12:15:49 GMT -5
That's most likely. Serten' Spell Immunity is a good example. Serten was a cleric and Gary just tagged the MU spell with his name.
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Jan 12, 2017 12:52:51 GMT -5
My guess with "Otiluke's Freezing Sphere" is that Luke (who was 7 or 8 years old at the time) probably loved throwing snow balls, especially at his older sisters, so dad memorialized him with a "magical snow ball" spell.
Since there doesn't seem to be any Gygax-era "canon" on these two, here's what I'm thinking of doing with them for my game:
Bucknard is a spoiled rich kid - chaotic neutral, not particularly wise. He's a dilettante who's always looking for a good time but gets bored easily - he might decide to leave in the middle of an adventure leaving his companions in a lurch. He's amiable and easygoing on the surface but can't be trusted. He's obsessed with finding the Hand and Eye of Vecna (which are located on another plane or planet) and is rumored to have made some unsavory lower-planar associations in furtherance of that quest. He was a companion of Mordenkainen, Murlynd, et al. early in their careers, but more recently, as his behavior has become more erratic, relations between them have become quite strained. Some adventurers have recently reported encountering Bucknard wandering in the dungeons beneath Greyhawk Castle, disheveled, confused, and seemingly-lost, but that report may not be reliable.
Otiluke is a prodigy-wizard, younger than the other archmages but just as accomplished. He's very energetic and enthusiastic but also perhaps a bit naive. The other wizards tend to treat him condescendingly, which he resents, so he's always trying to prove himself to them, which sometimes leads to rash and risky action. He is more friendly and solicitous towards low-level adventurers than the other, more aloof, archmages but this causes him to sometimes unintentionally lead lower-level parties into situations too dangerous for them to handle. His closest associate is Melf, and he bears a particular enmity against Wastri, the Hopping Prophet.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 12, 2017 13:05:20 GMT -5
There was all kinds of shit floating around pre-T1 so I'd imagine anything is possible. Otis acquired from a magic pool the ability to cast a Freezing Sphere spell... Otis read it off a scroll... Otis asked a djinni for snowball to throw... Otis was a specialized ranger that was part of a multi-tiered organization called Knights of Fury which was the basis for the state of "Furyondy"...
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Post by GRWelsh on Jan 12, 2017 16:01:44 GMT -5
It was definitely a different zeitgeist back in the 70's...
DM: "You see a pool --" Player 1: "A magic pool! I jump in!" Player 2: "I jump in, too!" DM: "Uh, guys I wasn't finished desc-" Rest of party: "We all jump in." Player 1: "Come on, 18 strength!" Player 2: "I'm hoping for a wish." DM: "I didn't say it was a magic pool. It is filled with a powerful, clear acid." [Rolls eyes] "Save versus death, everybody."
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Post by Scott on Jan 12, 2017 20:47:16 GMT -5
Is there anything on Bucknard besides the everfull purse?
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 12, 2017 22:36:04 GMT -5
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Post by Scott on Jan 12, 2017 23:37:13 GMT -5
That's good inspiration for an NPC. Based on that I'd make Bucknard an 18th or 19th level Arch-Mage, NG or CG. Maybe a source of info for the Garden of the Plantmaster, follower of Celestian.
Otiluke, 16th or 17th level Mage. Probably LG. There are three sphere spells named after him, so the cold part never stood out. Maybe he's from Verbobonc, Burne's mentor?
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 13, 2017 10:41:39 GMT -5
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 13, 2017 10:44:17 GMT -5
Gary could literally see the sign from his office window while writing the DMG.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jan 13, 2017 11:27:22 GMT -5
Nice scrying, Gene.
I also googled "Bucknall Lake Geneva Wisconsin" and found out it was probably Albert Bucknall he was referring to. It looks like Bucknall would have been about 60 when EGG was born (1938). I also found the obituary in the Janesville Daily Gazette for Monday, September 30, 1957:
I wonder how Bucknard was 'active' in EGG's campaign? My guess would be as a kindly old mentor type, or perhaps source of information.
Yeah, I like the idea of him being a follower of Celestian, and a possible link to the Garden of the Plantmaster.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jan 13, 2017 11:30:36 GMT -5
Bucknard is a spoiled rich kid - chaotic neutral, not particularly wise. He's a dilettante who's always looking for a good time but gets bored easily - he might decide to leave in the middle of an adventure leaving his companions in a lurch. He's amiable and easygoing on the surface but can't be trusted. He's obsessed with finding the Hand and Eye of Vecna (which are located on another plane or planet) and is rumored to have made some unsavory lower-planar associations in furtherance of that quest. He was a companion of Mordenkainen, Murlynd, et al. early in their careers, but more recently, as his behavior has become more erratic, relations between them have become quite strained. Some adventurers have recently reported encountering Bucknard wandering in the dungeons beneath Greyhawk Castle, disheveled, confused, and seemingly-lost, but that report may not be reliable. I think I'd give this description to Rary, instead. Adding in that he's forgetful, too.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 13, 2017 12:12:57 GMT -5
There apparently was a shop before Gary's time directly North of the DUNGEON HOBBY SHOP that was called "Bucknall's" as well:
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