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Post by geneweigel on Nov 16, 2016 8:31:57 GMT -5
I don't think I'm communicating this right.
PARTY'S DIE /SNOW LEOPARD'S DIE/ SURPRISE EFFECT
4 to 6 /4 to 6 /none 1/ 1 / both surprised 2 /2 /both surprised 3/3 party surprised 1 or 2 /4 to 6 /monster surprised 3 to 6 /1 or 2 /monster surprised 1/ 2 / party surprised 1/ 3 / party surprised
I think this is right but I might have missed something.
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Post by Scott on Nov 16, 2016 10:02:56 GMT -5
Based on the wording of the text, and some vague recollection that "complete" surprise was used as a reference to 2 segments of surprise, the way I read that is: the party can't avoid being surprised and the die roll is used to determine whether the party is surprised for 1 segment or 2. To add another wrinkle the party has a monk with a reduced chance of being surprised. Final ruling: the party is surprised for 1 segment on 1-3, 2 segments on 4-5, and no surprise on a 6. I rolled a 5, and encounter distance was a 1, so they were close enough to attack immediately and get 2 segments worth of attacks. The party entered. The snow leopards pounced from their ledge, and scored a few hits on two party members. The party won initiative and the monk was able to them from attacking again.
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Post by Scott on Nov 16, 2016 10:24:16 GMT -5
I did find a few references. Complete surprise was introduced in Eldritch Wizardry, and it does mean a 2 on the surprise roll, and it gives an initiative advantage. In AD&D it pops up in several places: crossbow of speed, phantasmal killer spell description, and the description of the catoblepas. Where it is again states it means 2 on the surprise roll.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 16, 2016 11:25:11 GMT -5
I think the more one thinks about surprise beyond rolling whatever weird dice or numbers for the monster and d6 for the party the more complicated it gets.
Complete surprise in reality is that one side has surprise exclusively. So all rules have to bend to it. I think that is the best way to look at it:
Complete surprise: Winner exclusively Surprise: Simultaneous winners or nothing
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Post by Scott on Nov 16, 2016 12:09:15 GMT -5
I think that per EW the leopards should have had initiative the first round and been able to attack once more before the monk was able to use his ability. But not a big issue.
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Post by Scott on Nov 17, 2016 21:28:38 GMT -5
Damn! I just wrote this giant post detailing the first 2 rounds of an encounter with frost giants, and Word crashed right after I cut it and erased my clipboard in the process. It had everything. Potion of speed, normal initiative, tied initiative, multiple attack routines, spells, wands, etc. and it's gone.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 17, 2016 21:49:25 GMT -5
I made 20 layers of the CHAG monster on Photoshop and the whole crashed before I saved it.
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Post by Scott on Nov 18, 2016 10:01:16 GMT -5
I have not DMed a capable, high level party in a long time. The party was in the 16 - 19 room cluster where a total of 18 giants came at them in waves, which has always caused them problems in the past, but they handled them pretty well. The monk saved them from being surprised from the rear, or things could have gotten ugly. 2 of the 3 fighters got taken down to 1 hit shy of death. So resource management will become a factor now.
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Post by Scott on Nov 18, 2016 10:14:46 GMT -5
The giants rolled real bad in saves too, so that helped. 3 held, 4 charmed, all three giants targeted by a 50 point lightning bolt failed their saves.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 18, 2016 10:35:03 GMT -5
I recall running the G series in 1982 and it was a wagon train of characters. (24? PCs and NPCs.) Lots of dwarf players though which decreased in popularity over the years for some reason. I think there was one elf player and 5 players were dwarves. In addition there also dwarven henchmen. Around 5? I don't know specifically (the records are summaries of that period with the session notes lost.) there were a lot of dwarves who were all over the giants. My cousin Bill also had a hill giant he had coerced from another location (pre-G) who he brought with him as a trick.
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Post by Scott on Nov 18, 2016 10:57:03 GMT -5
I ran it in high school, and it was one of those very stereotypical early 80s, high school, munchkin blood baths. There was a core of 3 PCs that were consistent, and a revolving cast of fodder.
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Post by GRWelsh on Nov 18, 2016 12:18:11 GMT -5
I first played in the G series in 1981. It was great rollicking fun, with a lot of over-powered characters involved, often rolled up at higher levels or assigned by the DM. I had a 12th level ranger assigned to me named Arthur Hothtar who had a Ring of Flying, and I remember flying around the halls in G3... A magic-user in the party may have made me invisible, also.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 18, 2016 12:31:10 GMT -5
Everyone had at least one of each class so it was a lot of killing, player fighting and walk-on player characters either played by a player who just had a character die or people who heard about the game play and wanted to join in. By the time it was done no one to continue with the D series. I played as a player in D1 and D2. I had to do D 3 entirely separate from the events of the G series and the other Ds.
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Nov 18, 2016 12:35:11 GMT -5
We played through them around the summer of 1985 (so after we'd been playing about a year and a half). The main thing I remember looking back is that we used "He-Man" figures as minis for the giants. That and a lot of heavy combat and not much else. We definitely glossed over A LOT. Same thing with D1-2. We never played D3 (or Q1) because none of us owned them at the time (though I must have acquired them not long after, because I definitely already had both by the time the GDQ1-7 "supermodule" was released at the end of '86).
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 18, 2016 14:02:17 GMT -5
I had bought a slew of giants just prior i to G2 think most are Ral Partha
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 18, 2016 14:03:11 GMT -5
I'll dig them out later when i get home
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 18, 2016 15:46:15 GMT -5
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 18, 2016 15:51:00 GMT -5
This is probably everything left that was used for those 1982 game sessions. The party is Grenadier and the giants all Ral Partha except I think the small hill giant is Armory.
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Post by Scott on Nov 19, 2016 13:38:15 GMT -5
Minis have been missing from my games. Maybe I'll finally go get some glasses and start painting again.
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Post by GRWelsh on Nov 19, 2016 20:22:10 GMT -5
I just recently bought a bunch of Reaper miniatures and started painting again, myself. Last Saturday, Ray had a "paint night" at his house. Mark and I showed up, Eric couldn't make it. I also have a set up in my garage with an extendable magnifying glass light. If you ever want to paint up here, let me know.
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