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Scrolls
Jun 27, 2016 22:20:56 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Jun 27, 2016 22:20:56 GMT -5
Can a scroll spell be interrupted like a memorized spell?
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Scrolls
Jun 27, 2016 22:35:40 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by foster1941 on Jun 27, 2016 22:35:40 GMT -5
I've always played it that the casting is interrupted but the scroll isn't ruined. I don't know if I read that somewhere or just decided it on my own.
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Scrolls
Jun 28, 2016 7:14:34 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Jun 28, 2016 7:14:34 GMT -5
It seems like that should be the case, but I don't know if it's ever confirmed anywhere in the books.
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Scrolls
Jun 28, 2016 10:12:28 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jun 28, 2016 10:12:28 GMT -5
The case is that its a question of whether it is delayed to the next round. Well scrolls can be broken and be effective. From DMG (1979) page 128:
That is absolute.
But what about the nature of spellcasting from PHB (1978) page 100:
Is this saying that while it navigates around "S" and "M" it still requires "V"?
So essentially scroll casting is akin to "V"?
That doesn't make sense in this context from DMG (1978) page 40:
I don't have either of these on hand but I can dig them up in a few weeks where I have them boxed up and go over the references see if there is any "scrollery" in there.
The only ref that I see in POLYHEDRONs are from POLYHEDRON #19 (SEP 1984) its another Frank Mentzer (with indirect Gary) answer:
and this is a combat example with a scroll from Frank Mentzer directly in bold then specifically colored red the rest I left in for clarity:
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Scrolls
Jun 28, 2016 11:14:08 GMT -5
Post by GRWelsh on Jun 28, 2016 11:14:08 GMT -5
I've always played it that scroll spells can be disrupted as they are being read, and that the spell disappears from the scroll whether or not it was successfully cast. I guess the reasoning is that once you begin reading the spell aloud, it 'activates' but must be read to completion in order to take effect. But once you begin the casting, you are committed to finishing it. A character who voluntarily stops in mid-casting -- for whatever reason -- also loses the spell.
I'm not sure if this is correct, or where I got this from... Probably some DM I once played with early on. I've always assumed this is how everyone plays it with scrolls.
If the rules truly are unclear on this point, an idea would be to introduce a randomizer: maybe a character in a situation that would have disrupted the casting of a normal, memorized spell still has a % chance to finish casting a spell from a scroll since it is simpler to use and merely requires reading aloud; and/or maybe an interrupted casting from a scroll has % chance of the spell not disappearing from the scroll (as foster described).
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Scrolls
Jun 28, 2016 11:34:14 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jun 28, 2016 11:34:14 GMT -5
Protection scrolls kill the ingame logic.
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Scrolls
Jun 28, 2016 11:49:54 GMT -5
Post by foster1941 on Jun 28, 2016 11:49:54 GMT -5
I think the main reason I haven't made interrupted scroll-spells be lost is that a scroll is a magic item that the character either claimed in lieu of other treasure or paid a lot of GP for or at least went to trouble and expense to manufacture. If a memorized spell is interrupted and lost, the character can re-memorize the spell the next day, but if a scroll spell is lost, then it's gone forever. That seems too harsh to me, and likely to annoy and frustrate the players.
I don't recall and scroll-reading in The Dying Earth. In Eyes of the Overworld Cugel the Clever tries to cast a spell (I can't remember if it's from a scroll or directly from a spell book) and it backfires, but that's (presumably) the inspiration for the thief scroll-reading failure rule and not indicative of "proper" magic-user scroll-use. I feel like there might have been a spell cast from a scroll in The Face in the Frost, but it's been long enough since I read that book that I can't be sure.
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Scrolls
Jun 28, 2016 11:56:57 GMT -5
Post by GRWelsh on Jun 28, 2016 11:56:57 GMT -5
Then you're a nicer DM than most of the DMs I've had. I've had very few DMs concerned about whether their rulings annoy or frustrate players.
Another possibility for a disrupted scroll spell reading is for it to be miscast and have random or reversed effects!
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Scrolls
Jun 28, 2016 16:42:39 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jun 28, 2016 16:42:39 GMT -5
Scrolls that are discovered (rather than made) need to be pre-read with read magic so that is a major stop gap for it flowing like river of bullets.
However, in my campaign, there are non-standard scrolls and standard scrolls. The rest is opinions on how I see things:
If someone is hit they lose the magic for any type scroll in my campaign.
I've come to the conclusion that too much focus on tipping things towards players to cut back on magic is a mess. Its better to err on more magic supply than spartan environs. Beef up opponents. I would never have a "monster" with a row of one spell traveling spellbooks all lined up to be read for maximum spell use but I've seen players in cheapo campaigns that did all kinds of workaround stunts like that. Magic items for players but not for wandering monsters is one thing that irks the crap out of me in the cheapo campaign. Whats the point of playing if everything is rubberized? Equilateral punishment is what everyone wants.
Taylor was "King of Scrolls" back in the 80's and 90's and he did everything by the book (even if I didn't want to!).
The old players with old knowledgeable characters are probably easier to deal with than people coming off other games and campaigns which confuses the fuck out of the game flow. In the 1990's, I had this guy saying scrolls were reusable in AD&D and he came across so sincerely that I did a double take. Is that from an RPG?
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Scrolls
Jul 4, 2016 22:29:27 GMT -5
Post by grodog on Jul 4, 2016 22:29:27 GMT -5
FWIW, I always allow scrolls to be interrupted; that's why they have casting times (including protection scrolls).
I do allow for non-standard scrolls that can be reused N times (so they're basically charged, like a wand, but with casting times/interruption risk), or used N times per timeperiod, or that recharge over a certain timeperiod, etc.
Allan.
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Scrolls
Jul 28, 2016 22:09:49 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Jul 28, 2016 22:09:49 GMT -5
I feel like there might have been a spell cast from a scroll in The Face in the Frost, but it's been long enough since I read that book that I can't be sure. I just dug out FACE IN THE FROST and read it and there are no scrolls. I think Gygax is referring to magical failure specifically the bridge scene when Prospero is using magical tarot cards and just winging it. Anyways, it seems like FACE IN THE FROST was not seminal for D&D from this review by Gary in a February 1979 THE DRAGON issue (#22):
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Scrolls
Jul 29, 2016 11:53:04 GMT -5
Post by foster1941 on Jul 29, 2016 11:53:04 GMT -5
He must've added that name-drop to the DMG manuscript immediately after he finished reading it
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