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Post by Scott on Jan 31, 2016 12:31:26 GMT -5
Anybody have any known, or home-brew NPCs in/around Greyhawk? Specifically ones the PCs might interact with? I use the Striped Mage for magic item identification, and training for M-Us/illusionists. (Gene, do you have his original name? I think it was changed for Yggsburgh). What about other re-occurring NPCs? Different trainers, priests, sources of info, etc.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 31, 2016 15:21:59 GMT -5
Yeah, the Striped Mage was a colorful paragraph handed over to somebody else apparently to develop and expand in whatever manner they saw fit. This is one of the things that irked me about the whole Yggsburgh mess. Cerdamont Tasjornivand? Ha!
According to what Gary was glad to inform me of prior to Yggsburgh, he is Klinchak 17th M-U/7th Illus and his "apprentice is 9th level M-U. These levels represent the time of Terik painting the tower into the barber pole according to Gary. At the time (setting) of the 1980 Folio/1983 Boxed set he considering him to be higher than this (higher than an archmage (18thlevel)) and "Master of the Savant's Guild" as well as an oligarch because of the guild position.
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Post by Scott on Jan 31, 2016 16:15:34 GMT -5
"Cerdamont Tasjornivand" may have been my least favorite part of Yggsburgh.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 31, 2016 21:36:40 GMT -5
In regards to campaign characters I think that there were so many in GHC it would be impossible to explain all of them.
Plenty of scum though.
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 1, 2016 7:02:51 GMT -5
From the way he described the Striped Mage it seemed they dealt with the "apprentice" most of the time.
I had to extract my unique campaign notes from the official Greyhawk material but I think that I put a lot of effort into trying to make Greyhawk into a working machine by not nailing down mainstays but instead keeping it vibrantly urban and replacing tried and true characters and areas if stale. I like players to hear the name of a place and say "oh, yeah! That place is open?"
The more "woodsy" the setting I usually reserve for same old place and same old people type play.
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Post by GRWelsh on Feb 1, 2016 15:50:33 GMT -5
I keep thinking that EGG got the name "Klinchak" from a medieval source, but I can't seem to find it. I thought I saw the name mentioned in MAGIC IN THE MIDDLE AGES by Richard Kieckhefer (1989) but when leafing through it today, I could not locate the name.
I like the idea of an NPC list for Greyhawk City. Somewhere there was a website where the Gord books were mined for names and details... "Gord's Greyhawk" -- but that website seems to be non-existent now.
Maybe I'm just going crazy and imagined all of this!
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Post by Scott on Feb 1, 2016 16:17:26 GMT -5
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 1, 2016 16:37:47 GMT -5
When I was talking to Gary I think that I was hopefully delusional that there was going to be a revival. All I ever wanted was better quality products and there was never a single product of any game that matched Gygax at TSR.
So i think that I should have been fiercer
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Post by GRWelsh on Feb 1, 2016 16:53:34 GMT -5
Yes! I'm so glad someone archived it. That site had the NPC list I was thinking of.
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Post by Scott on Feb 1, 2016 18:16:46 GMT -5
When I was talking to Gary I think that I was hopefully delusional that there was going to be a revival. All I ever wanted was better quality products and there was never a single product of any game that matched Gygax at TSR. So i think that I should have been fiercer Yeah, it seemed like there was some momentum going, but then the Gygax curse kicked in again.
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 1, 2016 18:22:38 GMT -5
The balance was that respect for his fans' wishes for quality fantasy characters was outweighed by the need of trying to get back to the easy relegating that celeb status once afforded him that he lost. He was still running on the notion he could captain a squadron of elite enthusiasts at the same pace but all he was getting was a bunch of monkeys with typewriters selling industry standards of two pages for a character "penny a word" crap.
In regards to that Gord's Greyhawk page , thats alright but there was a few flaws. I think he mentioned Planescape or something.
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Post by Scott on Feb 1, 2016 19:23:35 GMT -5
I haven't perused it ina while. I remember it being pretty straight up Gygax Greyhawk.
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Post by Scott on Feb 1, 2016 19:26:36 GMT -5
I keep thinking that EGG got the name "Klinchak" from a medieval source, but I can't seem to find it. I thought I saw the name mentioned in MAGIC IN THE MIDDLE AGES by Richard Kieckhefer (1989) but when leafing through it today, I could not locate the name. I like the idea of an NPC list for Greyhawk City. Somewhere there was a website where the Gord books were mined for names and details... "Gord's Greyhawk" -- but that website seems to be non-existent now. Maybe I'm just going crazy and imagined all of this! I definitely need to establish a few regular NPCs and blow some life into them. I've definitely neglected that aspect of my games. The whole city game is something I'd like to explore a little more.
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Feb 2, 2016 14:50:24 GMT -5
In regards to that Gord's Greyhawk page , thats alright but there was a few flaws. I think he mentioned Planescape or something. Hiya, folks. It's been a minute! I spent some time with that page recently - I printed the whole thing out and stuck it in a notebook for future reference - and Gene is right. In a few spots there are editorial insertions of then-current (i.e. late 90s) game-terminology - Planescape name-equivalents for the planes and outer-planar denizens are given in parentheses next to the names from the novels, and in a few of the NPC descriptions something similar is done (IIRC there are suggested spheres for the priest-types or kits or something like that). It sticks out like a sore thumb and leaves a bad taste, but it's also easily ignored and I don't think any of it's presented in a way that pollutes the actual content derived from the novels. However, one thing I distinctly remember from my own attempt to create a similar database of "Greyhawk facts" from the Gord novels c. 1990ish (in reaction to my disappointment with TSR's Greyhawk City boxed set) was a detailed description of Greyhawk's city walls - how high they were, how much space was between the two layers, etc. - I remember making a cross-section diagram to illustrate it - which (unless I overlooked it) isn't included anywhere on the Gord's Greyhawk site. That makes me wonder what other similar sorts of details the compiler of that site might have ignored.
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Post by Scott on Feb 2, 2016 16:51:04 GMT -5
Hey Trent. Thanks for digging those pages up. With "Town" settings, EGG always went overboard with the details. It's part of what made some of his stuff so memorable, but a lot of it never comes up in play. That's part of what frustrated me about the time spent (wasted?) on Yggsburgh. Starting out a general idea of the big picture, and a few important locations and NPCs should suffice. Then it can grow where the party leads it. I'm thinking to start, since I use the training rules, placing trainers for the PCs should be a must. The cleric's trainer will also serve as the primary temple where the party goes for healing. The M-U trainer would be the Striped Mage, who will also be able to identify items. Somebody for fighters. A thieves' guild. What else to start with?
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Feb 2, 2016 17:20:24 GMT -5
As coincidence would have it, over the weekend I just pored over the AD&D rulebooks and compiled as many explicit or implicit references to in-town shops and service providers as I could find and put them together in a big list, which I then supplemented with enough other types of common-seeming establishments that didn't have a defined game-activity attached to fill up a single sheet (in 2-column, 9-point Helvetica font). This feels to me like a good starting place for stocking an AD&D city (that's what I'm intending to use it for) - place all of these establishment-types somewhere in your city, attach a few detailed NPCs to them, add a couple more "unique" locations, and you've got something sufficient for most uses - as well as maybe something to give to players to encourage them to think a little less abstractly about the "in town" part of the game. I posted the result at K&K but got no response, so I'll report it here:
COMMON SHOPS AND LOCATIONS IN SETTLEMENTS
In order to assist the DM in detailing settlements the following list of common establishment-types and other locations is offered along with (where applicable) a brief notation of any game-activity that is likely to occur in such a location or establishment (i.e. which goods and services are offered for sale, etc.). In general, any city-sized settlement will include most or all of these locations (and likely multiple instances of many of them – taverns, blacksmiths, tailors, etc.). Smaller-sized settlements will have proportionately fewer locations.
Alchemist/apothecary – hire an alchemist (DMG p. 29), may buy or sell potions Animal Trainer Apartment – rent or buy lodging Armorer – hire an armorer (DMG pp. 29-30), buy and sell metal armor and shields (PH p. 35), repair damaged field & full plate armor (UA pp. 75-76), may buy or sell magic armor and shields Assassin’s Guildhall – hire an assassin (PH p. 29) or spy (DMG p. 34), buy poison (DMG pp. 20-21), find training for assassins (DMG p. 86) Astrologer – hire a mystic (p. 11ff) Barber Baker Bank – get a loan; high interest (10% per month or 5% per week w/ security for amount borrowed) to poor or unknown characters; low interest (1% per week) to well-known or propertied characters (PH p. 35) Barracks – hire mercenary soldiers (DMG pp. 30-31) Blacksmith – hire blacksmiths (DMG p. 30) Bowyer /Arrowsmith/Fletcher – hire a bowyer (DMG p. 34), buy and sell bows, crossbows, arrows, quarrels, and silver arrows (PH p. 35), possibly buy strength-adapted bows (DMG p. 64), may buy or sell magic bows and arrows Brewer – buy beer, ale, and mead (PH p. 36) Brothel Butcher Carpenter – hire carpenters (DMG p. 28-29) Cartwright – buy and sell carts and wagons (PH p. 36) Chandler – buy candles and torches (PH p. 36) Cobbler – buy boots (PH p. 35) Cooper Law Court – hire scribes (DMG p.33) Curio Shop – may buy or sell magic items Docks – hire ship crews and ship masters (DMG pp. 33-34) Embalmer Fishmonger Fortune-teller – hire a mystic (p. 11ff) Furrier – buy or sell furs (DMG p. 27) Gambling Hall – gamble (DMG pp. 215-216) Gem Merchant – sell gems usually at 80% of value, buy gems (PH p. 35) General Trader – buy and sell miscellaneous equipment items (PH p. 36) Grocer – buy food and rations (PH p. 36) Hatter – buy hats and caps (PH p. 35) Herbalist – buy and sell herbs (PH p. 35, DMG pp. 220-221) Hiring Hall – hire bearers, linkboys, pack handlers, teamsters, valets (DMG pp. 28-29) Horse Trader – buy and sell horses and tack (PH p. 36) Hospital Hostel – rent lodgings, buy food & drink (PH p. 36) Inn – rent lodgings, buy food & drink (PH p. 36), hire henchmen (DMG p. 35) or men-at-arms (p. 30), gather information Ivory Merchant – buy and sell ivory (DMG p. 27) Jail Jeweler – hire jeweler/gemcutter (DMG p. 30), sell jewelry usually at 80% of value, buy jewelry (PH p. 35) Kennel – buy guard and hunting dogs (PH p. 36) Leather Worker – hire leather workers (DMG pp. 28-29), buy leather goods including leather armor (PH p. 35) Library – hire a sage (DMG pp. 31-33), gather information Limner/painter – hire limners (DMG pp. 28-29) Livestock Dealer – buy and sell livestock other than horses and dogs (PH p. 36) Locksmith Mason – hire masons or carpenters (DMG pp. 28-29) Mercenary’s Guildhall – hire engineers (DMG p. 30) and mercenary soldiers (DMG pp. 30-31), find training for fighters (DMG p. 86) Moneychanger – change coins to greater or smaller denominations typically for 3% transaction fee, deposit money and receive marker to vouch for amount (PH p. 35) Museum – hire a sage (DMG pp. 31-33), gather information Net Maker Palace Perfumer – buy or sell perfumes or unguents (DMG p. 27) Potter/Glassblower Rat Catcher Scribe/Cartographer – hire scribes (DMG p. 33), buy or sell maps Shipwright – buy and sell boats and ships (PH p. 36) Silk Merchant – buy and sell silks (DMG p. 27) Spice Merchant – buy or sell spices, incense, and pepper (DMG p. 27) Stable – rent lodgings for horses; buy horse feed (PH p. 36) Swordsmith – hire a swordsmith (DMG p. 34), buy and sell swords and daggers (PH p. 35), may buy or sell magic swords and daggers Tailor/Weaver – hire tailors (DMG pp. 28-29), buy clothing, including padded armor (PH p. 35) Tapestry Maker – buy and sell tapestries and brocades (DMG p. 27) Tavern – buy food & drink (PH p. 36), hire henchmen (DMG p. 35) or men-at-arms (p. 30), gather information Temple – buy religious items (PH p. 36), characters of similar alignment and religion buy spells (DMG pp. 103-4), may buy or sell potions of healing and other clerical magic items, find training for clerics (DMG p. 86) Theatre Thieves’ Guildhall – find training for thieves (DMG p. 86) Tobacconist Town Hall University (College, School) – hire a sage (DMG pp. 31-33), find training for magic-users (DMG p. 86) Warehouse Weapon Maker – hire a weapon maker (DMG p. 34), buy and sell weapons other than swords, daggers, bows, crossbows (PH p. 35), may buy or sell magic weapons Wharf Wine Merchant – buy wine (PH p. 36)
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Post by Scott on Feb 2, 2016 17:39:22 GMT -5
Do you use monks in your game? Is there a monastery in there?
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Feb 2, 2016 18:02:52 GMT -5
While compiling the list I considered adding monastery (with the notation of it being a place for monks to find training) but eventually decided to leave it off, on the idea that monasteries (specifically the type of quasi-Buddhist monasteries that train monk PCs in kung fu) generally won't be conveniently located in cities and towns but rather will be in remote locations that the character would need to travel to. In some locations (WOG: the Baklunish states, the Scarlet Brotherhood, cities with temples to Xan Yae) that might not be true, but for general-purpose use I decided to leave it off (especially since if I'd included it I would've needed to either leave something else off, decrease the font size, or expand the document to 2 pages, none of which I wanted to do).
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Post by Scott on Feb 2, 2016 19:02:32 GMT -5
My current party includes a wood elf ranger, a human fighter, and a human cleric. The fighter has a halfling fighter/thief henchman, and the cleric has a magic user henchman. Definite locations do far: The Green Dragon Inn, The Tower of the Striped Mage, the Temple of Pelor. I'm thinking about borrowing the Swordsmen's Brotherhood from Yggsburgh for the fighter. I Might just force the ranger to make a trip to the Gnarley to train. and the hobbit may head for a shire in the Cairn Hiils.
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Post by Scott on Feb 2, 2016 19:06:07 GMT -5
While compiling the list I considered adding monastery (with the notation of it being a place for monks to find training) but eventually decided to leave it off, on the idea that monasteries (specifically the type of quasi-Buddhist monasteries that train monk PCs in kung fu) generally won't be conveniently located in cities and towns but rather will be in remote locations that the character would need to travel to. In some locations (WOG: the Baklunish states, the Scarlet Brotherhood, cities with temples to Xan Yae) that might not be true, but for general-purpose use I decided to leave it off (especially since if I'd included it I would've needed to either leave something else off, decrease the font size, or expand the document to 2 pages, none of which I wanted to do). I generally agree with this. For Greyhawk City, I'd make an exception. For the WoG I think I'd set one of the Masters of Dragons in the Baklunish west, one is a member of the Scarlet Brotherhood, and the 3rd would be in Greyhawk.
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