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Post by geneweigel on Jan 4, 2016 14:10:13 GMT -5
Yes, exactly.
Heh, those were good but harsh times, working with Gary was impossible because he was asking for website click action which I knew nothing about. Someone gave me some software called "Macromedia Dreamweaver" and it was not as easy as the AOL Home software that I originally was throwing things up left and right with. He specifically wanted a map that would zoom in to a Greyhawk City quarter which I had done to some extent but then he wanted more street detail of which he would not provide any areas unknown to me. It was cool but I think I was playing with fire legally by bridging him into my "fantopia".
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Post by Scott on May 8, 2016 12:41:10 GMT -5
Re-reading some of these articles, it seemed like full blown war was imminent come spring 579 CY. In 578 Nyrond and Almor had both declared war on the Great Kingdom, South Province and Medegia were already moving south, and Almor/Nyrond were preparing to invade. Nobody's given thought to how this would play out? Sunndi seems likely to take a beating with Medegia moving in from the northeast, and South Province attacking from the north/northwest. If the demi-humans can stop Medegia's invasion it would free up a lot of Sunndi's troops. South Province already has the whole of the Iron League to worry about, and now Almor and Nyrond with a bunch of troops from Urnst are coming. North Province doesn't seem to be in a position of offer any aid, but the Great Kingdom will soon be throwing everything it's got into the conflict. What's the resolution? Can the PCs play a part somehow? You could really turn it into a Clash of Kings like situation. Is there something in the Maze of Zayene series that can be used?
There's another big conflict brewing in the west. I think you could use the PCs results in the ToEE to influence the action there.
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on May 8, 2016 15:24:57 GMT -5
Here's what I diid:
569 CY – Battle of Emridy Meadows—Horde of Elemental Evil scattered and Zuggtmoy sealed within the Temple.
570 CY – Iuz freed from Castle Greyhawk (along with eight other deities) by actions of Robilar. Eli Tomorast begins investigating Maure Castle.
572 CY – Battle of Medegia, in which the Sea Barons sink four warships of the Lordship of the Isles.
573 CY – Scarlet Brotherhood first reported; Prince of Furyondy/Provost of Veluna Thrommel kidnapped (by Scarlet Brotherhood, at the commission of Iuz).
575 CY – Joint forces of Fruzti and Ratik clears forces of Stonefist from their northern passes.
576 CY – Reports of caravans lost in northern Hepmonaland (taken by yuan ti and their allies).
577 CY – Reports of The Slave Lords (who serve the Scarlet Brotherhood) begin to surface.
578 CY – Nyrond, Almor and allies issue proclamation of war against Great Kingdom and its allies. Hold of Stonefist becomes Stonehold under Rhelt Seuvord I and is divided into four atamanships. Forces of Iuz defeated by Wolf Nomads at Battle of Black Water bend. Horned Society claims Warfields and Wormhall from Bandit Kingdoms as retribution for desertion of bandit forces.
579 CY – Gonijo becomes Emperor of Kozakura. Horned Society attempts further eastward incursions into Bandit Kingdoms, but are repulsed by united forces of the “kingdoms”. Forces of Iuz seize control of much of the northeastern portion of the Vesve Forest and the western shore of Whysetil Lake.
580 CY – Bandit Kingdoms drive the forces of the Horned Society west of the Ritensa River as the Shield Lands make a northward thrust into Society territory.
582 CY – Scarlet Brotherhood makes major incursions into Hepmonaland, Amedio Jungle and Pomarj.
585 CY – Iuz attempts to conquer the Horned Society lands with an alliance of humanoids and forces from the Bandit Kingdoms, but unexpected reinforcements from the Scarlet Brotherhood (via the Ritensa River) thwart his plans. The war between the Great Kingdom and Nyrond/Almor ends in a virtual stalemate, with many losses of life and few gains for either side.
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Post by geneweigel on May 8, 2016 22:29:33 GMT -5
Here is the description of the last gasp of the World of Greyhawk in the novels from DANCE OF DEMONS (1988) which is probably not where the product line under Gygax would have been headed but influenced everybody else's GreyhawK:
and
and
and
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Post by geneweigel on May 9, 2016 8:30:21 GMT -5
This is more big war material just prior in the previous novel COME ENDLESS DARKNESS (1988):
and
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Post by Scott on May 9, 2016 8:47:07 GMT -5
Here's what I diid: The war between the Great Kingdom and Nyrond/Almor ends in a virtual stalemate, with many losses of life and few gains for either side. Boring. Tossing around some ideas, I think I would have the Great Kingdom gain the advantage, through Zayene, but this would not be known to the PCs. All of the Iron League would be taken. Almor fallen. Nyrond on the verge of defeat, and the PCs have the chance to save the day if they succeed in the Maze of Zayene series.
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Post by geneweigel on May 9, 2016 9:38:08 GMT -5
I should mentiuon that I only included the geographical part of DANCE OF DEMONS just to explain that its almost the apocalypse so war is over just to see in context. There are also many geographic mentions in COME ENDLESS DARKNESS but I didn't think it relative to the thread.
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Post by Scott on May 9, 2016 10:48:43 GMT -5
Yeah, and as you pointed out, EGG was probably not too invested in Greyhawk at the time.
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Post by Scott on May 9, 2016 11:49:22 GMT -5
I posted before the plans Gary had for a war. Iuz and the Horned Society were going to be allies, with help from the Fists, and either Ket, or some Nomads. In the Dragon Greyhawk articles there is no mention of hostilities between Iuz and the Horned Ones right? If I ever get to progress the timeline I would use this version. I'd make Thrommel's status a big factor in the results. As well as any other events from the ToEE they might influence things. Like the PC handing over the Orb, etc.
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Post by geneweigel on May 9, 2016 13:32:07 GMT -5
Yeah, he's definitely nihilistic but the state specific maneuvers are probably likely.
Other things of interest are the mention of Iggwilv using anti-detection magic suggesting normally in WOG there is a counter for massing troops.
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Post by Scott on May 9, 2016 13:46:37 GMT -5
I remember a line from one of the books stating that 'as usual the high level types just cancel each other out, and the troops just fight it out normally' which seemed like an easy out for handling the addition of magic into fantasy wars.
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Post by GRWelsh on May 9, 2016 18:46:51 GMT -5
"Remember the time we almost saved Nyrond?"
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Post by grodog on May 9, 2016 19:31:04 GMT -5
Is there something in the Maze of Zayene series that can be used? and Tossing around some ideas, I think I would have the Great Kingdom gain the advantage, through Zayene, but this would not be known to the PCs. All of the Iron League would be taken. Almor fallen. Nyrond on the verge of defeat, and the PCs have the chance to save the day if they succeed in the Maze of Zayene series. I think that the assassination scenario outlined in MoZ1 works well with the potentially-looming wars: if the PCs fail, it can serve as pretext for an invasion/retribution, and if they succeed, it can perhaps turn the tide of the war and the entire Great Kingdom itself. Judging success or failure of the PCs, though, within the short span of a season (or perhaps even two!) of war may be difficult: MOZ SERIES SPOILERS FOLLOW MOZ SERIES SPOILERS FOLLOW MOZ SERIES SPOILERS FOLLOW MOZ SERIES SPOILERS FOLLOW MOZ SERIES SPOILERS FOLLOW MOZ SERIES SPOILERS FOLLOW MOZ SERIES SPOILERS FOLLOW MOZ SERIES SPOILERS FOLLOW - the PCs attempt (and fail) to assassinate Ivid in MoZ1's intro (this can also be played out vs. being hand-waved by using MoZ3) - the PCs are then cast into MoZ1's dungeons, and to escape those dungeons they need the keys from MOZ2 (1 from each of the four extra-planar realms) - there's no specific details about the temporal relationships between the Prime in MoZ1 and the realms in MoZ2, but it would certainly be feasible for the flow of time to differ between the various locations; even if there is temporal difference (where time flows slower/faster from one location to another, for example), time will elapse while the PCs are chasing after the four keys in MoZ2 to return to MoZ1 - once the PCs return from MoZ2 with all 4 keys, they can then escape the dungeons; but they still need to determine whether they will attempt to carry out their original mission or not (whether it's still relevant, depending on how long they've been gone, and how far along Zayeen's plots have advanced; if they have learned that Ivid is innocent, do they attempt to stop Zayene, or at least escape to report back?; how much does Zayene learn of their status, and what is his real agenda if he is in fact the power behind the Malachite Throne?---to what ends of his are the wars of the Great Kingdom serving?) - the PCs may through exploring MoZ3 (but moreso MoZ4) determine that Ivid is a puppet of Zayene, but even if they learn this, will the proof matter, and will it enable them to stop Zayene himself at all, and to restore the Great Kingdom to its former state of goodness?
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Post by Scott on May 10, 2016 8:11:23 GMT -5
I would change it up a bit. Ivid could not be considered "innocent"; he is the mad, evil ruler described in the Guide, but he has been snared in Zayene's trap. Or he was. I might run it so that the true Ivid is already dead. If the PCs succeed than the war with Nyrond would end. I haven't decided if there shpould be a true heir, or if the Great Kingdom would then be ripped apart through a series of succession wars.
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Post by geneweigel on May 10, 2016 12:07:18 GMT -5
What was Terry Kuntz and Eric Shook's part in the making of Xaene anyway? I never really heard about their involvement even though actual work is mentioned in a Dragon article (DRAG #55 NOV 1981) by Gary as a team:
Was any part of the maps in FATE OF ISTUS (1989) the teamwork mentioned above?
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Post by geneweigel on May 10, 2016 15:01:14 GMT -5
Specifically, how original "under Gary" and intended for one of those "ruled out" areas do you think the Rauxes entry is? Here is the relevant mentions:
I dod remember a conversation with Rob about the leagues and Baalzy and Karoolck where he said he had altered things for this module but I wonder if the majority is what was intended?
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on May 11, 2016 9:54:44 GMT -5
Well, the Great Kingdom/Nyrond "reset" was aimed mostly at post-Gary TSR "Greyhawk Wars" crap; but any realistic alliance between Iuz and the Horned Society, I can't see. Too much disparity between their ethos, and both have their own very definite agendas...
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Post by Scott on May 11, 2016 12:15:54 GMT -5
I just pretend the post-Gary TSR stuff never happened. The Iuz/Horned Society alliance was definitely Gary's plan. I'm sure either would turn on the other in a second, but there was a mutual benefit in working together. Also, Iuz's alignment is CE (n), a step away from the purely demonic CE. Wasn't there a section of the Gord stories where Iuz was thinking about the HS and mentions pretending to work with them? That's basically how I would assume any alliance would work. Gary also mention how Mordenkainen and Robilar might be involved, both making land grabs during the chaos.
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Post by geneweigel on May 11, 2016 14:25:33 GMT -5
Here I think you're both right but it depends on the timing:
ARTIFACT OF EVIL Chapter 8:
Eclavdra tells him Iggwilv is now free from Graz'zt to help him
and CHAPTER 13:
Chapter 32 the siege of Molag by Iuz:
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Post by Scott on May 11, 2016 14:52:26 GMT -5
Some good stuff there.
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