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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 14, 2015 18:47:49 GMT -5
Has anyone read this graphic novel? I recently watched JODOROWSKY'S DUNE. It is a well made documentary about an intended Dune movie that had a lot of pre-production work completed in the mid-1970's... but the movie never actually got made. After watching the documentary, I have no idea what the resulting movie would have been like. The implication seems to be that this could have been the greatest thing ever, it could have pre-empted STAR WARS as the great influencer of an entire generation! In truth, it could have been anywhere from amazing to a total bomb, there's no way to know. It definitely would have departed from the book, just as the Lynch version did. I'm imagining a lot of gruesome, bizarre scenes and a highly metaphysical and possibly confusing ending -- all done with LOGAN'S RUN (1976)-level special effects. Jodorowsky is just so out there, it's hard to say... But he certainly assembled a talented group of people in the pre-production phase, including the artists H. R. Giger and Moebius.
Anyway, I was watching a recent video on Comic Book Girl 19's YouTube channel and she mentioned how the DUNE novel influenced Jodorowsky's graphic novel THE INCAL (which he collaborated on with artist Moebius) which in turn influenced the movie THE FIFTH ELEMENT (1997). Funny, she didn't mention the HEAVY METAL movie (1981) and how similar Bruce Willis' character was to Harry Canyon. Juan Giménez, another artist that Jodorowsky later colloborated with (beginning 1992 on THE METABARONS) was also the designer for the "Harry Canyon" segment in HEAVY METAL.
P. S. I'm intrigued so I ordered THE METABARONS. I had some Amazon VISA points to burn, so why not. What I'm hoping for: the sci-fi epic work of genius many reviewers are claiming it is. What I'm expecting: an extended comic strip in the vein of HEAVY METAL magazine from the late 70's and early 80's, with gorgeous art and a semi-coherent story which is a mix sci-fi concepts, sex and general strangeness -- and at the very least a departure from mainstream American comics.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 16, 2015 18:03:46 GMT -5
Its actually just what you're looking for but note, THE METABARONS is a retconned prequel of THE INCAL.
The movie THE FIFTH ELEMENT is a sort of a brain dead and ultra-"French-ified" version of THE INCAL story (Moebius was French but the makers of 5th element over-French it) . That story was released in the US in 3 separate graphic novels and they introduce the then current "metabaron". The Gary Oldman part is sort of a mix of the metabaron with other shitty rotten characters in the Incal storyline.
The Metabaron series is kind of stand alone but ultimately, like I said, it is a retcon and some metabaron stuff appear first in the Incal story.
As far as the Dune movie I haven't seen the documentary but I've read about the failed production years ago. I think it might have been better but even Lynch was castrated so... who knows?
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 16, 2015 18:14:52 GMT -5
I just thought that I'd add that THE INCAL is okay but its tainted by material they ripped off for THE 5th ELEMENT which I could imagine might ruin it. So don't try to think of the movie at all if you get a chance to read it.
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 20, 2015 11:50:15 GMT -5
Gene, have you read all of the other associated graphic novels? Like CASTAKA, BEFORE THE INCAL, and AFTER INCAL? Do you recommend them?
And by the way, how is your own comic coming along?
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 20, 2015 17:55:04 GMT -5
I had to dig up a lot of these graphic novels and mini-series to get the memory back.
As far as the last bunch compared to the original Incal? They are in the same flavor although the CASTAKA is in the flavor of the Metabaron series which is derivative of Incal in its own way. The artist of the original Metabaron mini-series, Juan Gimienez, is very likable in flavor although the other subMetabaron spinoffs are almost as good he is the best. All have that HEAVY METAL flavor of various styles.
As far, as my comic goes I went back to the drawing board. It just rolled up into something that didn't feel right.
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 22, 2015 14:01:52 GMT -5
Do you recommend reading them in any particular order? Or does it even matter? The order they were published in seems to be THE INCAL first, and then various prequels and sequels over the past 30+ years.
For some things, arranging them in chronological order works best. But generally I like to read things in the order they were published. Take THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA for example. Over the years, they started publishing "newer versions" of the entire set re-numbered in chronological order. But they don't read as smoothly from a narrative sense; the author in THE LION, THE WITCH AND THE WARDROBE implies reader not knowing who Aslan is... but if you've already read THE MAGICIAN'S NEPHEW then you certainly know who Aslan is. Little things like that cause disparities in the narrative. And, anyway, I don't mind a story that jumps back and forth in time.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 22, 2015 15:14:56 GMT -5
The Incal first because it feels right to get the "present" because the prequels seem built around having read that first. So I would go with date of publication. One of those Metabaron series doubles up a story to tell more background but I forget which one.
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 23, 2015 10:45:09 GMT -5
Thanks. I'll read THE INCAL first. I ordered THE INCAL, THE METABARONS and METABARONS GENESIS: CASTAKA. These things are on the expensive side... but, hey, what else am I going to spend my money on these days? I'm looking for something different and inspirational... a departure from typical American superhero comics. A few years ago, I bought a bunch of HEAVY METAL magazines from the late 70's and early 80's. Very bizarro, but different. Moebius was a regular contributor from the outset.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 23, 2015 13:39:16 GMT -5
I guarantee it is HEAVY METAL in style with the European flavor of art and writing.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 23, 2015 13:45:11 GMT -5
Comics are no w so expensive you might as well go for the most adult oriented. My friend has never given up on AVENGERS and I look at them once in a blue moon. Too many talk bubbles and not enough dynamics.
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 24, 2015 11:45:35 GMT -5
I have a friend who owns a hobby shopt that sells comics, and he keeps up on the Avengers and says the same thing you do, that it has been more dialogue-focused in recent years. But he has a different opinion about it, he seems to like it. He said the book has been great and hilarious with all the witty back and forth and character interaction, and in some issues nothing even happens, they just talk. I don't see how that's great. People have always accused comic books of being "soap operas with super powers" and although that has a bit of truth, the relationships were never the main focus. In the past, the main focus was on the action and concepts. The relationship-bits were more like colorful side-details (Peter Parker has girl trouble again, Namor is infatuated with Sue Storm, etc.). But with a lot of modern comics the "soap opera" accusation seems to be coming true.
An Avengers comic where "nothing happens"?!?
Did I hear that right?
BTW, I received THE METABARONS and leafed through it. The art is just amazing, I hope the story is as good. I'm holding off looking at more until I get through THE INCAL, which is on the way...
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 24, 2015 20:50:37 GMT -5
Yeah, they are very texty and horrible. I think they're paid by the word which is dumb because that breaks the formula of even the graphic novels.
Sometime in the 80's it became about British guys rewriting old American comics to make them "serious". The best (worst) example is Alan Moore on SWAMP THING. This was my favorite comic even when it got shitty in the early 80's yet it still didn't compare to the crap job that he did. The retcon just destroyed the monstrous mystique of a mutated revenant and replaced it with a hippy dippy defender of plants who is just another all look the dincarnation sent by the "parliament of trees" since the beginning of time. BARF!!!
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 24, 2015 21:06:36 GMT -5
I think that "serious" is the de facto way comics are made but I think the original comics of the 1930's to the 1950's had "serious" content it just was done right before the comics code came in. Moore's lapse of the comics code wasn't to restore what was lost instead we got this vicarious living as if the Swamp Thing "tuber-fucking" Abby Arcane somehow gave Alan Moore the means to make dreams about unattainable women come true. The Moore era of seriousness is in truth overwritten for pennies-a-word when the lion's share of the story should be the imagery.
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 30, 2015 15:12:54 GMT -5
I finally received THE INCAL and I'm going to start in on this one tonight. I'll take your advice and try to not think of "The 5th Element."
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