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Post by Scott on Feb 22, 2015 9:43:07 GMT -5
Anybody ever ran players through these planes? If players are traveling through these planes en route to another plane, how do you handle travel time? How long would a party of PCs headed for an elemental plane spend in the Ethereal Plane? Or from one point on the Prime to another?
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 22, 2015 14:46:31 GMT -5
Traditionally throughout the 1980's I had used the DEITIES AND DEMIGODS (1980) hardcover and ignored the Roger Moore ultra-detail from DRAGON #67 (NOV 1982) even though it was checked as an interim ref by E. Gary Gygax. I only followed the liner notes because it was too busy.
Later on when talking to Gygax he had said all the planar stuff in DEI&DEM was 1980 updates by him that would fit in with later stuff they had planned like the Plane of Shadows.
In the world that I had used, I had mentioned this prior that I had a "D&D world" as the campaign base then in the late 80's converted everything I had made which was a lot of shit to placeholders for Greyhawk 15 years later I had revived all my original stuff and scraped off the Greyhawk material, I was fascinated by alternate worlds so the biggest complaint that I got was that I ran an "anything can happen" campaign compared to what other DMs were running. So I had several creatures with "lagged" planar portals that one could jump into so D&D spells with planar aspects (qv. dimension door, etc.) were always played out easily.
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Post by Scott on Feb 22, 2015 15:15:43 GMT -5
I haven't really looked at that in years. I'll have to give that section a read.
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Post by Scott on Feb 22, 2015 18:59:39 GMT -5
That was helpful, what I was looking for. I didn't even remember that little Plane of Shadow blurb being in there.
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 23, 2015 9:23:39 GMT -5
That was helpful, what I was looking for. I didn't even remember that little Plane of Shadow blurb being in there. Yeah, you can see it at work boosting later MMII entries (various elemental and shadow creatures by Gygax) and eventually the UNEARTHED ARCANA <<<compiled mostly Gygax DRAGON mag>> content (the hierophant extended druid class mentions paraelemental and shadow planes, as well as various magic items oil of elemental invulnerability and spells reflecting pool and shadow walk. |
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Post by GRWelsh on Feb 24, 2015 19:36:43 GMT -5
Eric ran some extra-planar adventures and mainly used Jeff Grubb's MANUAL OF THE PLANES (1987). I've never owned that book, but Eric used it for the Ethereal, Elemental Plane of Earth, some para-elemental or quasi-elemental planes, the Astral Plane and the Abyss. I do have DEITIES & DEMIGODS and Appendix 1 has sections on Ethereal Travel and Astral Travel, but those sections are pretty vague. "Ethereal travel is tireless and rapid," and Astral Travel is "speedy." Evidently, it may 'seem' to take longer to reach an intended destination the first and second times, compared to the third and subsequent times, due to number of encounter checks required (with either Ethereal or Astral Travel, this progression is the same). I guess it may also depend on whether you actually have any encounters while travelling. I think I'd describe Ethereal Travel like being in a shadowy fog, with everything vague and insubstantial and with foggy curtains that one can approach which are the various Inner Planes. I seem to remember Eric describing the Astral Plane as an endless gray space filled with color pools (distant stars) and occasional bits of rock or planetoids floating around (like Gith islands, where Gith pirates would dock at -- I think this is from the DRAGON adventure, "Fedifensor"). The first time trying to find one's way to another Plane, I think I'd say it felt like it took a long time (days? hours? who can tell?) with a feeling of getting lost or slightly disoriented, but subjectively shorter every subsequent time one went to a familiar plane. It also might be interesting to have time flow differently on different planes. I think I like house rules for the planes, especially, since they really should seem alien to players the first time they are travelled to in any AD&D campaign... I can't stand the idea of players being "Ho hum, it's the Astral Plane. This is what we need to do here." There should be more uncertainty and discovery to it than that!
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 25, 2015 0:52:52 GMT -5
They're also depicted in the PHB (astral, back by ASTRAL AND ETHEREAL COMBAT), DEI&DEM (astral, back by ASTRAL ENCOUNTERS) and MM (ethereal, under THOUGHT EATER entry).
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Post by Scott on Feb 25, 2015 10:09:56 GMT -5
I can't recall ever DMing any planer travel adventures. There has been some other planer stuff, but it's been, you're one place, and then 'poof' you're someplace else.
I have a few players that have PCs that may be ready to start exploring the multiverse, so I've been tossing around some ideas.
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Post by Scott on Feb 25, 2015 18:21:29 GMT -5
I remember when MotP was released. I was pretty excited when I first picked it up, but after I started reading it, it started feeling pretty wonky, to the point that I lost interest.
Contradictions and confusion aside, Gary wrote in a way that made you want to keep reading. That seems to be rare in a rule book.
The Dei & Dem stuff seems to address passing through the Ether/Astral planes, but not really adventuring there. I think to avoid the "ho hum' effect I might tinker with an adventure in those planes as an intro to planer adventures, rather than having the first experience being a pass through with several encounter rolls.
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 26, 2015 9:38:56 GMT -5
You could say the same about the average 2E era campaign as just something you pass through!  Seriously, there should have been a slew of planar product however with the ouster of the D&D's essentials (Gary & crew) they threw major products to those on the winning side of the hostile takeover which was was random editing staff with little imaginations, of course. (Zeb Cook, Jeff Grubb, etc.) . Here's a clue in an article about submitting modules to TSR (its the one where Roger Moore said Greyhawk is exclusive to Gary Gygax*): * Moore from POLYHEDRON #21 (JAN 1985) ((( ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS® game modules. Module settings and content. AD&D® game modules should not be tied to anyone specific game world , but should be easily adaptable to most Dungeon Masters' game campaigns. Module designers should avoid locating their adventures in the WORLD OF GREYHAWK Fantasy Selling, and avoid using particular personalities, countries, artifacts, politics, and so forth that relate directly to that game universe (e.g., Codex of the Infinite Planes, Mordenkainen, St. Cuthbert , etc.). We wish to leave the development of this universe to E. Gary Gygax and his associates. Similarly, we ask th at you not set your adventures in the world of Krynn (the setting ror rhe DRAGONLANCE adventure series), as this game universe is under development by a special team of TSR game designers, authors, and editors. Avoid using any material from copyrighted sources without permission. Anne McCaffery 's DRAGON RIDERS OF PERN books, Piers Anthony's Xanth series, Michael Moorcock's Elric series, j.R.R. Tolkien 's LORD OF THE RINGS series, Larry Niven's Kzinti , and the Cthulhu mythos created by H.P. Lovecraft, et. aI., are good examples of material that cannot be used in your module submission. Develop your own materials and backgrounds; we pay highly for originality and creativity.))) From this last line, I guess Roger Moore wasn't paid much.... |
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Post by Scott on Mar 1, 2015 10:51:23 GMT -5
I really wanted Manual of the Panes to be good. I still have it, and am paging through it now, and it is just terrible. There's so much emphasis on the wrong elements in that book.
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Post by maximus on Mar 1, 2015 12:09:45 GMT -5
I agree. The book was a great disappointment. I have it packed away at the bottom of a footlocker with few 2E items I bought. I had hoped to use it to bring a high level group I was DM'ing to the Hells, but I just couldn't use it.
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