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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 3, 2014 10:35:14 GMT -5
Every time I look at the area map in B2, I wonder: what do the graph paper maps off to the east, north, south and west look like? And NE, SE, SW, and NW? And then further back to a hex scale of 1 mile per hex, or 5 miles per hex, or more. Which way is that river supposed to be flowing, and where did it come from and where does it go? We know the road west leads back to the Realm, after several days travel, but where does the road east go? We know the Realm is narrow and constricted, but what does it look like, and what is constricting it on each side? Are there other Keeps on the Borderlands, guarding other parts of the Realm?
I know the answer to all of these questions would probably be a chuckle from EGG along with a comment such as: "Only you can answer that. I designed the scenario to be modular and fit in anywhere. But you are the Shaper of the Cosmos, and you need to have the wherewithal to develop it further and breathe life into it."
But I can't help it, I still wonder what it would look like if EGG himself had further mapped the area around the KEEP, and built it up from scratch into a campaign setting of its own.
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Post by Scott on Sept 4, 2014 21:25:48 GMT -5
Who knows, but if you care to design it, I'd be happy to explore it. To me the road has the feel of the East Road of Eriador east of the Bridge of Mitheithel. The text states that the party comes from the west and "the road has climbed higher as you enter the forested and mountainous country". So water could flow downhill to the west, but to me the water system layout appears to flow east.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jul 26, 2015 10:43:39 GMT -5
The location of the KEEP could be in a higher country than the Realm, to the west, yet the river could still be flowing east. When I take the turnpike from Pittsburgh in the west out to eastern PA, there is a sign where the Chesapeake Watershed begins -- where the water begins to flow southeast. That could be an analogy for where the KEEP is geographically:up in a forested, mountainous country, like the Appalachians.
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Post by Scott on Jul 26, 2015 11:12:55 GMT -5
Perusing some moldy old threads, eh? That's good. Yeah, it could be flowing either way. That was just the assumption I was working with. If it flows west it could brings creatures with it from the Wilderlands. I'm starting a bi-weekly Saturday afternoon game if you're interested. Be a couple kids there if you can take it.
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Post by geneweigel on Jul 31, 2015 7:38:59 GMT -5
I'm interested.... too bad they haven't invented beaming technology. It is so hard too get energized for me ( ), well, in regards to getting a game together. For me, it has to be a new crew and it has to be a revival of the rotating DM era. Whatever it changed into after that, with me being the default "regular DM" because everyone else was either dead or virtually game dead, I don't really want to repeat ever again. The hardest core DMs, that I knew, are wraiths of their former DMing glory. Last big revival with old players, the people were looking for an excuse to do something else for sure (e.g. "going over to play with Gene all night" and then leave as early as possible then later someone calls me at 5AM looking for them, etc., etc., etc) Those "enabling" days are done. I don't mind the sex, drugs and rock -n- roll but not at the expense of loved ones who blame me forever for their deception. Back to the B2 Expansion, its already mandatory in the case of the module itself (caves of the unknown, cf.). In the case of my handling of the keep, its been pushed all over the place dimensionally with the entire map just free floating into other lands and other worlds. In regards to what the lands of B2 are, I think that a trip to Lake Geneva would answer that easily. The low hills are unmistakably B2-ish. I drove a little too far down a road and it seemed Caves of Chaos like to say the least. Its like it had just enough raised terrain to fire the imagination.
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Post by Scott on Jul 31, 2015 11:24:22 GMT -5
I hope it turns into a rotating DM game. Or I have to wait until my Friday night schedule changes so I can get back into the games at Gary's house, where they do rotate games and GMs. I think there's enough opportunity for expansion that it could become your life's work. I agree it would be nice to see Gary's ideas (on anything), but I believe what you see was the extent of his efforts. I think I'd like to see a campaign develop beyond the keep into the wilderness. Maybe the players find something in the temple and they need to go investigate.
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Post by Scott on Jul 31, 2015 11:25:29 GMT -5
Wait for the 2nd generation beaming technology, or you might end up as a jar of Gene Jelly.
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 7, 2015 9:54:58 GMT -5
Just now, I almost considered expanding the B2 map then I realized all the other half-baked projects are just sitting there.... GAHHHH!!!! Back to the drawing board!
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Post by Scott on Aug 7, 2015 12:08:03 GMT -5
Lately I have been running dungeon crawls for my son, and anybody else that shows up. I have detailed a very limited amount of area around town and the dungeon, and a few regular NPCs. Once there is a party in the 5th level range, I am going to start sending them out on short jaunts and expand the setting in small pieces.
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Post by maximus on Aug 8, 2015 11:38:00 GMT -5
My kids just finished clearing out the caverns. They are back at the Keep resting up and training. I haven't decided where they are off to next, but thought about expanding on the swamp area, having them fight the lizard men as a transition to "Tomb of the Lizard King". My initial placement of the Keep was in the Yeomanry, but decided to relocate it to the Northwest border of the Pomarj. I think there is much more opportunity in this area.
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Post by Scott on Aug 9, 2015 7:41:55 GMT -5
What levels are the PCs?
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Post by maximus on Aug 16, 2015 6:44:37 GMT -5
They are training for 4th level
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 16, 2015 9:51:48 GMT -5
4th level days can be bad or good. If you're playing with a storytime type DM its the end of the line as the players fall one after the other to the panicked whims of someone who is a permanent fixture on "paragraph one" of the complex game rulebook learning curve. However, a DM who can play by the rules, and bend them only for continuity of the feel of the rules, can make 4th level feel like the beginning of a new type game. A game where interplayer trade and treasure dispensing really comes full bear( I.e.discussion anongst players who should get a class-oriented magic item if there is nothing else that hasn't been accidentally destroyed in the fight?).
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Post by Scott on Aug 16, 2015 11:50:36 GMT -5
4th level is more or less a more comfortable 3rd level. The PCs have gained a little wealth and magic, and they're not so fragile. There's a pretty big shift at 5th level. Access to 3rd level spells is a big step. Henchmen are starting to pop up, and you may see the Breaking of the Fellowship as the PCs individual goals start to come into play.
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Post by maximus on Aug 19, 2015 17:33:52 GMT -5
I had to introduce henchman a little sooner than I normally would've because its just my son and daughter in the party. I'm filling in as the other characters for now. 4th level will be the start of a new adventure for them. It will certainly challenge their skills.
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Post by grodog on Sept 15, 2015 17:26:04 GMT -5
Every time I look at the area map in B2, I wonder: what do the graph paper maps off to the east, north, south and west look like? And NE, SE, SW, and NW? And then further back to a hex scale of 1 mile per hex, or 5 miles per hex, or more. Which way is that river supposed to be flowing, and where did it come from and where does it go? We know the road west leads back to the Realm, after several days travel, but where does the road east go? We know the Realm is narrow and constricted, but what does it look like, and what is constricting it on each side? Are there other Keeps on the Borderlands, guarding other parts of the Realm? I know the answer to all of these questions would probably be a chuckle from EGG along with a comment such as: "Only you can answer that. I designed the scenario to be modular and fit in anywhere. But you are the Shaper of the Cosmos, and you need to have the wherewithal to develop it further and breathe life into it." But I can't help it, I still wonder what it would look like if EGG himself had further mapped the area around the KEEP, and built it up from scratch into a campaign setting of its own. There's some nice analysis on the connections between B2's wilds, the DMG monastery environs, and T1, if you're curious, Gary: see Timrod's sleuthing in his blog @ unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/01/dmg-sample-dungeon-part-1-background.htmlunfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/01/dmg-sample-dungeon-part-2-down-stairs.htmlunfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/02/dmg-sample-dungeon-part-3-room-3-and.htmlunfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/02/dmg-sample-dungeon-part-4-cult-of-fiery.htmlas well as unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/09/more-fodder-in-case-of-sample-dungeon.htmlunfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/07/b2-t1-keep-of-hommlet-self-diagnosed-t1.htmlunfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2012/09/more-fodder-in-case-of-sample-dungeon.htmlunfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2014/04/moathouse-friday-lareth-conspiracy.htmlunfrozencavemandicechucker.blogspot.com/2013/02/hommlet-heart-of-village.htmlWell-worth checking out! _________________
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 16, 2015 18:48:54 GMT -5
Thanks Allan. Yes, I have seen several of those posts before, and I agree with a lot of it. There is a thread around here somewhere, where we were talking about the similarities between the DMG Sample Dungeon and the T1 moathouse. I think there is a definite 'resonance' between them, but I don't think they are exactly the same -- or intentionally related. I think it is more likely just a reflection of EGG's writing style and the elements he liked to make use of, at that time.
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Post by Merkholz on Sept 17, 2015 1:43:40 GMT -5
I'm not so sure. There is a lot of indications that the moathouse and the sample dungeon heavily borrows from the same setup, the "zombie allocation" is indicative that the moathouse dungeon map fails to house the written content. Whether this is a sign of Gary's "state of mind" at the time or a result of changing his own Campaign notes to make it fit for publication - twice! - is anyone's guess. It is intriguing all the same.
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