|
Post by GRWelsh on May 17, 2014 15:33:36 GMT -5
I finally ordered the last three volumes of this series and I'm looking forward to reading them: Morgoth's Ring, War of the Jewels, and Peoples of Middle Earth. From what I understand, these last three volumes are later writings -- meaning after the LOTR was written. Most of the other HoME volumes I've read so far have been early writings.
I've been diving back into Middle Earth again lately since I discovered the Tolkien Professor podcast. He goes over Tolkien's works with the academic depth that they deserve. Highly recommended podcast for Tolkienphiles. He goes over the Silmarillion, The Hobbit, and Lord of the Rings, and even some of Tolkien's other works like Smith of Wootten Major, Leaf by Niggle, and Mythopoeia.
|
|
|
Post by Scott on May 18, 2014 10:15:20 GMT -5
Let me know what you think. I've been looking at those books for a while.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on May 19, 2014 9:41:27 GMT -5
Yeah, the last book has the 30 page beginning of a sequel to LORD OF THE RINGS called "THE NEW SHADOW" which seems like its written by someone else or perhaps its just the way Tolkien wrote until it was refined. (?)
About the SILMARILLION and HISTORY OF MIDDLE EARTH series in general, I think they are a look at the value of the man's writing in themselves and I think the man's writing had nothing to do with that view and was more concerned about reflecting the world rather than notating what is what within itself except perhaps to make fantasy functional.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on May 20, 2014 8:24:58 GMT -5
Yeah, the last book has the 30 page beginning of a sequel to LORD OF THE RINGS called "THE NEW SHADOW" which seems like its written by someone else or perhaps its just the way Tolkien wrote until it was refined. (?). I read this last night. It was only about 12 pages or so. To me, it didn't feel like it was written by someone else; it did have a JRRT "voice" to it. However, it had a completely different feel to it than LoTR -- as different as LoTR is from THE HOBBIT, or either of those are from THE SILMARILLION. That may have been intentional, if he was trying to write a more 'modern' humanocentric story, where most of the Elves have gone away, and children have only heard of Orcs but never seen any, etc. The new 'Evil' seems like it was going to be about men being discontented in times of peace, and making plots or joining covert organizations or cults, in the time of King Eldarion (Aragorn's son). And that makes sense, because where else would evil come from in the Fourth Age? If the premise is this is the Age of Men, and most of the old, magical or monstrous things are fading away, then that would be the logical progression. I don't doubt that you are probably right. JRRT may have been horrified to see how all of his notes, early drafts, drawings and scribblings have been published for the entire world to see. What artist would want the world to see all of the crappy paintings he made on the way to try to produce a masterpiece? I used to think of HoME as Christopher Tolkien just cashing in on his father's works. But as I get older, my view is changing. There is nothing else quite like the HoME series that I know of, and now I'm grateful that Christopher Tolkien has produced these volumes. Also, if nothing was ever published post-humously, we would have never got to read THE SILMARILLION! And that has become my favorite Tolkien book.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on May 20, 2014 9:32:54 GMT -5
I think I look at Silmarillion like its a paper backdrop at a dinner table that has been laid across the beautifully prepared meal distracting diners from eating the delicious Old Forest breadsticks...
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on May 20, 2014 10:14:28 GMT -5
It's funny, when I first started readling LotR I was disappointed and thought it was wordy and dull. I wanted more storytelling like what was in THE HOBBIT. But for the first few chapters all I got was hobbits who never seemed to leave the Shire!
And my first reading of THE SILMARILLION was even worse. By that point, I'd come around to liking LotR and wanted more of that. And all I got was this weird Old Testament Norse mythology sort of thing. I thought it was boring and confusing the first time I tried to read it.
|
|
Falconer
Enchanter
Knight Bachelor
AD&D, Middle-earth, Star Trek TOS
Posts: 330
|
Post by Falconer on May 29, 2014 14:50:35 GMT -5
Some of Morgoth’s Ring is rewrites of The Silmarillion, but the unique material in there is golden (“Finwë and Míriel,” “Athrabeth,” “Myths Transformed”).
War of the Jewels is really only good for “The Wanderings of Húrin,” which is pretty sweet.
If you are interested in Dwarves, The Peoples of Middle-earth is really the only one with any good info (esp. “Of Dwarves and Men” but also elsewhere throughout). There’s some fascinating info on Glorfindel, The Five Wizards, and Círdan in “Last Writings.” The best narrative piece here is “Tal-Elmar,” a striking look at the Númenoreans from the eyes of the dark men of Middle-earth. “The New Shadow” is completely lame, but that’s why Tolkien abandoned it (he said he didn’t want to write a “thriller”).
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Jan 4, 2023 13:34:38 GMT -5
A concept that was seemingly abandoned by Tolkien was the idea that Valar and Maiar could reproduce to make other Valar and Maiar. For example, originally Fiönwë [or Urion] was the son of Manwë but that character evolved into being Eönwë the herald of Manwë. But, they could reproduce with other created beings such as Elves (Thingol and Melian to make Lúthien) and spiders (Ungoliant and a spider to make Shelob). This got me to thinking about possible origins of other creatures in Middle Earth. I know Tolkien was never happy with the concept of Elves captured and corrupted into Orcs and later in life considered alternate origins for Orcs. Also, it was unclear where things like dragons came from if Morgoth couldn't create new life but could only corrupt. Maybe these things were the spawn of incarnate Maiar reproducing with other forms of life similar to how Ungoliant mated with spiders to make Shelob and the other giant, intelligent spiders of Mirkwood. Other Maiar could have mated with wolves to create things like werewolves and Wargs, bears to create what eventually become Beornings, and reptiles to create dragons, etc. With origins in mind, Morgoth may have bred some of these things into other terrible and monstrous forms -- such as original dragons bred with fell beasts (or something similar such as winged reptiles of the First Age) to make winged dragons. Orcs are difficult, though, because we know since there are half-orcs they must share enough biological similarity to Men and Elves to be able to reproduce with Men so that implies a common origin. I haven't been able to find any examples of elf-orcs in Tolkien's writings, and I'm not sure if he considered that as a possibility or if Orcs could only crossbreed with Men.
|
|
|
Post by grodog on Jan 16, 2023 17:06:53 GMT -5
I just rec'd the last of the HoME books I didn't have for Christmas, which is timely since I've been going back through the Silmarillion and other stories as well! WRT corrupted life forms, your point about werewolves seems apt, since Sauron was served by them (and vampires) in Beleriand: "He conquered the Elvish isle of Tol Sirion, so that it became known as Tol-in-Gaurhoth, the Isle of Werewolves.[6] He was the Lord of the Werewolves there, and Draugluin was the sire of the Werewolves. Sauron's herald was the vampire Thuringwethil."* Perhaps breeding programs were the ultimate act of corruption, to take captured elves and men and use their reproductive capabilities in the service of evil? Allan. *from lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Sauron#First_Age
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Jan 16, 2023 18:32:25 GMT -5
It's so nice to have the complete HoME series. For Christmas, my sister got me THE NATURE OF MIDDLE EARTH (2021) edited by Carl Hostetter which is sort of like an unofficial 13th volume of the HoME series as it has many more tidbits JRRT wrote about Middle-earth.
JRRT wrote at one point that Morgoth corrupting the Elves was the most hateful and worst thing he ever did: "This it may be was the vilest deed of Melkor, and the most hateful to Ilúvatar." -- from THE SILMARILLION p. 50. Pretty horrific, and Tolkien wasn't comfortable with that explanation and later in life toyed with other possible explanations. The dragons and other monsters were always a mystery as well, but when I read about how Ungoliant produced Shelob and all of the other giant spiders, I thought that it possible that other Ainur became incarnate in forms that could mate with existing creatures to produce abominations which could be bred into new forms over time.
|
|